2017 Watch the Playoffs Thread!

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

They weren't sweeping and blowing out their way to the championship ...they had some adversity

 

2001 Lakers were the same. They faced adversity in 2002 then lost in the second round in 2003.

 

Just enjoy perfect basketball for a season because it doesn't make sense to lament a future that probably won't go as expected.

[Franchero MVP 391]

2001 Lakers were the same. They faced adversity in 2002 then lost in the second round in 2003.

 

Just enjoy perfect basketball for a season because it doesn't make sense to lament a future that probably won't go as expected.

 

I guess they're lucky this year because I don't think he'll be able to keep up this insane depth over the next few years when they have to start paying out

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I guess they're lucky this year because I don't think he'll be able to keep up this insane depth over the next few years when they have to start paying out

 

yup. and iguodala starts to decline more. Someone is going to overpay ian clark. Curry is going to get hurt again. and they'll make mental mistakes eventually. Steve Kerr might quit coaching.

 

enough stuff will drop.

[jec 427]

yup. and iguodala starts to decline more. Someone is going to overpay ian clark. Curry is going to get hurt again. and they'll make mental mistakes eventually. Steve Kerr might quit coaching.

 

enough stuff will drop.

 

The Spurs aren't going away any time soon either.

[Justin Jaudon 221]

I have a hard time enjoying these finals so far. It is somewhat impressive watching just how good a motivated and hungry GS can be with 4 All-NBA level players on one team, and it is certainly impressive to watch LeBron try to find a way to beat that; but the suspense and real drama is out of the games.

 

I'm not going to say that the league is ruined for years. But this is not how the playoffs should feel. I get that anything can happen from here on out. But Kevin Durant going to the Warriors - and to a lesser extent Boston refusing to part with assets for George or Butler - made the league less interesting for at least this season. That's not to say everyone will feel that way. Maybe casual fans will be brought in to enjoy watching the juggernaut. I know a bunch of people who never talked about basketball who are all of a sudden huge GS fans because of their dominance. But for the die-hard like me, who loves watching the drama of competition at the highest level, this has been a wasted season. There has not really been any drama. Everyone knew by August that the finals would be between Golden State and Cleveland. It wasn't just suspected. It wasn't like when everyone knew Miami would be there a few years ago, but Indiana still gave them a 7-game series, or when they lost to San Antonio. It's not like when everyone knew GS would be there last year, especially after 73 wins, but San Antonio looked super dangerous with 67 wins and OKC had to drop 3 games in a row to lose the Western Conference Finals. This has been a totally uninteresting season in terms of real basketball drama. GS and Cleveland coasted all year. San Antonio looked dangerous, until Leonard's injury in game 1 of the WCF. Boston looked more interested in getting the number one pick than actually competing in the ECF. GS and Cleveland haven't just come unscathed into the finals, they came essentially unchallenged, unopposed, walking in almost halfheartedly. And it was boring. Now, even as both teams go all out, one is so clearly better than the other that it's still boring. The NBA has become a league of blowouts, and it's annoying.

 

It regulated the salaries of players and teams so much that gaming the system has become the best way to win. And that is what GS did, and that is why this is so frustrating to watch. If Curry were getting paid what he was worth, this would not have happened. But the NBA staggered what a player could make, and the result was Curry making virtually the same amount as Nikola Vucevic after two MVP's and 2 straight finals appearances. Now, if Curry wanted to take less than half the salary of guys like Durant out of unselfishness, then that would be interesting because we would be watching the amazing dominance brought about by one man's utter unselfishness. But that would NEVER happen. That's a nice dream, but not realistic at all. The truth is that in a less regulated system, we'd likely have seen a great group of Western Conference series' like last year, with everyone vying to see who would take on Cleveland in a great finals series. The best player in the world always messes with parity. Just like Jordan did in the east in the 90's. But all save one of Jordan's Bulls' finals series' went 6 games, and most had plenty of drama. What made Jordan great was that he always seemed to win what on paper should have been an even match.

 

GS isn't close to an even match one paper with anyone. If San Antonio - a team with an MVP candidate in Leonard and another all-star level player in Aldridge, with the best coach in the NBA and a great supporting group - had beaten them, it would have been on a level with Detroit beating L.A. back in '04. Hell, if Cleveland comes back to beat them, it will be a huge upset, probably on the same level. The best player in the world, with a very good supporting cast, has no shot at winning it all.

 

But who knows, maybe LeBron LeBrons the hell out of the next 4 or 5games and makes this epic. Or maybe one of GS' big 4 gets hurt, and the series gets interesting. But two more games like this is not going to be fun at all, and dear God save me from another season of it.

[Franchero MVP 391]

I have a hard time enjoying these finals so far. It is somewhat impressive watching just how good a motivated and hungry GS can be with 4 All-NBA level players on one team, and it is certainly impressive to watch LeBron try to find a way to beat that; but the suspense and real drama is out of the games.

 

I'm not going to say that the league is ruined for years. But this is not how the playoffs should feel. I get that anything can happen from here on out. But Kevin Durant going to the Warriors - and to a lesser extent Boston refusing to part with assets for George or Butler - made the league less interesting for at least this season. That's not to say everyone will feel that way. Maybe casual fans will be brought in to enjoy watching the juggernaut. I know a bunch of people who never talked about basketball who are all of a sudden huge GS fans because of their dominance. But for the die-hard like me, who loves watching the drama of competition at the highest level, this has been a wasted season. There has not really been any drama. Everyone knew by August that the finals would be between Golden State and Cleveland. It wasn't just suspected. It wasn't like when everyone knew Miami would be there a few years ago, but Indiana still gave them a 7-game series, or when they lost to San Antonio. It's not like when everyone knew GS would be there last year, especially after 73 wins, but San Antonio looked super dangerous with 67 wins and OKC had to drop 3 games in a row to lose the Western Conference Finals. This has been a totally uninteresting season in terms of real basketball drama. GS and Cleveland coasted all year. San Antonio looked dangerous, until Leonard's injury in game 1 of the WCF. Boston looked more interested in getting the number one pick than actually competing in the ECF. GS and Cleveland haven't just come unscathed into the finals, they came essentially unchallenged, unopposed, walking in almost halfheartedly. And it was boring. Now, even as both teams go all out, one is so clearly better than the other that it's still boring. The NBA has become a league of blowouts, and it's annoying.

 

It regulated the salaries of players and teams so much that gaming the system has become the best way to win. And that is what GS did, and that is why this is so frustrating to watch. If Curry were getting paid what he was worth, this would not have happened. But the NBA staggered what a player could make, and the result was Curry making virtually the same amount as Nikola Vucevic after two MVP's and 2 straight finals appearances. Now, if Curry wanted to take less than half the salary of guys like Durant out of unselfishness, then that would be interesting because we would be watching the amazing dominance brought about by one man's utter unselfishness. But that would NEVER happen. That's a nice dream, but not realistic at all. The truth is that in a less regulated system, we'd likely have seen a great group of Western Conference series' like last year, with everyone vying to see who would take on Cleveland in a great finals series. The best player in the world always messes with parity. Just like Jordan did in the east in the 90's. But all save one of Jordan's Bulls' finals series' went 6 games, and most had plenty of drama. What made Jordan great was that he always seemed to win what on paper should have been an even match.

 

GS isn't close to an even match one paper with anyone. If San Antonio - a team with an MVP candidate in Leonard and another all-star level player in Aldridge, with the best coach in the NBA and a great supporting group - had beaten them, it would have been on a level with Detroit beating L.A. back in '04. Hell, if Cleveland comes back to beat them, it will be a huge upset, probably on the same level. The best player in the world, with a very good supporting cast, has no shot at winning it all.

 

But who knows, maybe LeBron LeBrons the hell out of the next 4 or 5games and makes this epic. Or maybe one of GS' big 4 gets hurt, and the series gets interesting. But two more games like this is not going to be fun at all, and dear God save me from another season of it.

 

Agreed with everything you said. However, what's happening now is also the result of a massive cap lift; once the cap stabilizes, it's gonna be harder for something like this to happen. But the playoffs right now suck really bad -- like really bad. Literally 12-0 vs 12-1 -- the parity is gone at least for now.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I have a hard time enjoying these finals so far. It is somewhat impressive watching just how good a motivated and hungry GS can be with 4 All-NBA level players on one team, and it is certainly impressive to watch LeBron try to find a way to beat that; but the suspense and real drama is out of the games.

 

I'm not going to say that the league is ruined for years. But this is not how the playoffs should feel. I get that anything can happen from here on out. But Kevin Durant going to the Warriors - and to a lesser extent Boston refusing to part with assets for George or Butler - made the league less interesting for at least this season. That's not to say everyone will feel that way. Maybe casual fans will be brought in to enjoy watching the juggernaut. I know a bunch of people who never talked about basketball who are all of a sudden huge GS fans because of their dominance. But for the die-hard like me, who loves watching the drama of competition at the highest level, this has been a wasted season. There has not really been any drama. Everyone knew by August that the finals would be between Golden State and Cleveland. It wasn't just suspected. It wasn't like when everyone knew Miami would be there a few years ago, but Indiana still gave them a 7-game series, or when they lost to San Antonio. It's not like when everyone knew GS would be there last year, especially after 73 wins, but San Antonio looked super dangerous with 67 wins and OKC had to drop 3 games in a row to lose the Western Conference Finals. This has been a totally uninteresting season in terms of real basketball drama. GS and Cleveland coasted all year. San Antonio looked dangerous, until Leonard's injury in game 1 of the WCF. Boston looked more interested in getting the number one pick than actually competing in the ECF. GS and Cleveland haven't just come unscathed into the finals, they came essentially unchallenged, unopposed, walking in almost halfheartedly. And it was boring. Now, even as both teams go all out, one is so clearly better than the other that it's still boring. The NBA has become a league of blowouts, and it's annoying.

 

It regulated the salaries of players and teams so much that gaming the system has become the best way to win. And that is what GS did, and that is why this is so frustrating to watch. If Curry were getting paid what he was worth, this would not have happened. But the NBA staggered what a player could make, and the result was Curry making virtually the same amount as Nikola Vucevic after two MVP's and 2 straight finals appearances. Now, if Curry wanted to take less than half the salary of guys like Durant out of unselfishness, then that would be interesting because we would be watching the amazing dominance brought about by one man's utter unselfishness. But that would NEVER happen. That's a nice dream, but not realistic at all. The truth is that in a less regulated system, we'd likely have seen a great group of Western Conference series' like last year, with everyone vying to see who would take on Cleveland in a great finals series. The best player in the world always messes with parity. Just like Jordan did in the east in the 90's. But all save one of Jordan's Bulls' finals series' went 6 games, and most had plenty of drama. What made Jordan great was that he always seemed to win what on paper should have been an even match.

 

GS isn't close to an even match one paper with anyone. If San Antonio - a team with an MVP candidate in Leonard and another all-star level player in Aldridge, with the best coach in the NBA and a great supporting group - had beaten them, it would have been on a level with Detroit beating L.A. back in '04. Hell, if Cleveland comes back to beat them, it will be a huge upset, probably on the same level. The best player in the world, with a very good supporting cast, has no shot at winning it all.

 

But who knows, maybe LeBron LeBrons the hell out of the next 4 or 5games and makes this epic. Or maybe one of GS' big 4 gets hurt, and the series gets interesting. But two more games like this is not going to be fun at all, and dear God save me from another season of it.

 

Curry didn't get a small deal because of some salary issue. Curry got a small deal because he was coming off a season where he missed 56 games, averaged 15 ppg, and there was some talk that he'd have chronic debilitating ankle injuries. A max extension at the time was 5 years 94 million. He got 4/44

[Justin Jaudon 221]

Curry didn't get a small deal because of some salary issue. Curry got a small deal because he was coming off a season where he missed 56 games, averaged 15 ppg, and there was some talk that he'd have chronic debilitating ankle injuries. A max extension at the time was 5 years 94 million. He got 4/44

 

Interesting. I forgot he was eligible for a better deal. But imagine that Andy Dalton wins the MVP the next two years in the NFL, and the Bengals win a Superbowl and go to another. Is Andy Dalton still making $16 mil in 2020, even though his contract goes through 2021? No, he's holding out for a renegotiation so that he's making at least in the ballpark of the $24 mil that Andrew Luck is getting. You can't do that in the NBA. Even if it's not because of pay scale, it is because of the stranglehold with which the NBA manipulates contracts. It's getting better, with stretch clauses and non-guaranteed years, but a guy shouldn't be MVP two years in a row and be making half what Chandler Parsons is making. The way the NBA handles contracts and the salary cap is just bad.

 

This is just my opinion, but I think that if the league had a hard cap and more flexible contracts (not fully guaranteed, not so long, no cap on player salary), there would be more parity. Let Curry renegotiate so that he's making $35 mil. In this scenario, the jump in total player salary availability would have meant a bunch of restructured deals to keep guys happy, not Chandler Parsons getting $25 mil per. Look at the Cavs. They are a great example of everyone pretty much getting paid what they're worth. Maybe Kyrie could get more, and maybe Love a little less, but for the most part they are all right where they should be, and James Jones isn't complaining about making 1/20th of LeBron's salary any more than Quincy Wilson is about making 1/20th of Andrew Luck's. Again, it's just my opinion, but less micromanaged contracts and a hard cap I think fixes a bunch of parity issues.

[Mike1989 68]

Interesting. I forgot he was eligible for a better deal. But imagine that Andy Dalton wins the MVP the next two years in the NFL, and the Bengals win a Superbowl and go to another. Is Andy Dalton still making $16 mil in 2020, even though his contract goes through 2021? No, he's holding out for a renegotiation so that he's making at least in the ballpark of the $24 mil that Andrew Luck is getting. You can't do that in the NBA. Even if it's not because of pay scale, it is because of the stranglehold with which the NBA manipulates contracts. It's getting better, with stretch clauses and non-guaranteed years, but a guy shouldn't be MVP two years in a row and be making half what Chandler Parsons is making. The way the NBA handles contracts and the salary cap is just bad.

 

This is just my opinion, but I think that if the league had a hard cap and more flexible contracts (not fully guaranteed, not so long, no cap on player salary), there would be more parity. Let Curry renegotiate so that he's making $35 mil. In this scenario, the jump in total player salary availability would have meant a bunch of restructured deals to keep guys happy, not Chandler Parsons getting $25 mil per. Look at the Cavs. They are a great example of everyone pretty much getting paid what they're worth. Maybe Kyrie could get more, and maybe Love a little less, but for the most part they are all right where they should be, and James Jones isn't complaining about making 1/20th of LeBron's salary any more than Quincy Wilson is about making 1/20th of Andrew Luck's. Again, it's just my opinion, but less micromanaged contracts and a hard cap I think fixes a bunch of parity issues.

 

The issue with adopting a hard cap is that it would either result in players needing to accept less money in order to keep teams intact [i.e. if Curry, Thompson, Durant and Green want to play on the same team then they would have to take less than they would be worth on the open market to make it happen], or teams could lose a key player (or players) to another team that can pay them what they are worth.

 

So if players take less money to keep teams to keep their team intact, then you will still get situations where players like Chandler Parsons get paid more than Curry, Thompson, Durant and Green because those four players have taken less money in order to pay on the same team. The big thing to consider here is the money these players can earn off the court when compared to someone like Andy Dalton. It is unlikely that Andy Dalton would be able to earn the same cash off the field as Kevin Durant or Steph Curry, so it stands to reason that someone like Andy Dalton would want to renegotiate his contract to get paid what he is worth while he is still playing at a high enough level to warrant it, whereas Durant or Curry could get paid less than they are worth by their NBA but make up for that with the money they earn off the court from their other sponsors and endorsements.

 

The flip side if players do leave to get paid what they are worth, then that is either a good or bad thing depending on your team's situation. For a team like the Warriors that drafted Curry, Thompson, Green and Barnes - we already saw them have to sacrifice Barnes in order to sign Durant, but under a hard cap they probably wouldn't be able to pay their existing or previous quartet what they are worth. In fact if Curry, Thompson and Green were all getting paid what they are worth, then they wouldn't have been able to extend Barnes or sign Durant in free agency. So for a team that drafts well or gets lucky in the draft like the Warriors (Curry, Thompson, Green, Barnes etc) or OKC (Westbrook, Durant, Ibaka, Harden etc), a hard cap situation could almost be a punishment unless they can stagger their cap hits in order to stay under the cap while paying all their top talent what they are worth and maintaining a well balanced roster. But at the same time a hard cap could prevent super teams, and also when those players leave they can help other teams get better. So I guess a scenario where more players might hit free agency and move around might be a benefit to the league, but it might not be for those teams that actually draft well and hit on a number of star talent.

[Franchero MVP 391]

If players want to have super teams then they should have to accept less money

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

If players want to have super teams then they should have to accept less money

[Franchero MVP 391]

Kevin Durant left 39 million on the table to sign with Golden State

 

Right, but now it's gonna be interesting to see how much steph curry is gonna need to leave on the table. And eventually Klay Thompson in 2018. And the penalties for going over the cap should be harsher, as harsh as it is now.