magicblue 315 Report post Posted April 16, 2017 False. In what way exactly? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HeHateMe 697 Report post Posted April 16, 2017 In what way exactly? We scouted Franz extensively. We visited with him 8 times prior to the draft. We had a good relationship with him. http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/interesting-article-fran-vazquez Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
magicblue 315 Report post Posted April 16, 2017 We scouted Franz extensively. We visited with him 8 times prior to the draft. We had a good relationship with him. http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/interesting-article-fran-vazquez So he came to Orlando to talk and workout? That's what you said was false. That "good relationship" sure did pay dividends Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HeHateMe 697 Report post Posted April 16, 2017 So he came to Orlando to talk and workout? That's what you said was false. That "good relationship" sure did pay dividends You don't have to have a guy come visit from overseas to have a good relationship with him and scout him, you are grasping this basic concept correct? You do realize that's standard operating procedure with the majority of foreign players right? Did you have an issue with us selecting Mario even though we exclusively scouted him overseas? The draft sucked. We were outside the top 10. Vasquez made sense and was worth taking a gamble on with trying to pair next to Howard. The Magic scouted him no less than 8 different times. It didn't payoff. It was more a small town kid having a change of heart about the NBA rather than a GM making a horrible selection. Otis was not a good GM but that was not some franchise crippling moment like some think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
magicblue 315 Report post Posted April 16, 2017 You don't have to have a guy come visit from overseas to have a good relationship with him and scout him, you are grasping this basic concept correct? You do realize that's standard operating procedure with the majority of foreign players right? Did you have an issue with us selecting Mario even though we exclusively scouted him overseas? The draft sucked. We were outside the top 10. Vasquez made sense and was worth taking a gamble on with trying to pair next to Howard. The Magic scouted him no less than 8 different times. It didn't payoff. It was more a small town kid having a change of heart about the NBA rather than a GM making a horrible selection. Otis was not a good GM but that was not some franchise crippling moment like some think. No, I have an issue with you saying something is incorrect when it's not. Again, the great relationship and scouting we did yielded us nothing. So that's a giant fail. You want to minimize it and that's fine. I instead opt for accountability Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HeHateMe 697 Report post Posted April 16, 2017 No, I have an issue with you saying something is incorrect when it's not. Again, the great relationship and scouting we did yielded us nothing. So that's a giant fail. You want to minimize it and that's fine. I instead opt for accountability You are incorrect. It's perfectly normal operating procedure to draft a foreign player without him physically coming to your facility. You are just being whiny at this point for whatever reason, maybe the Easter Bunny wasn't kind to you this year. Again, did you have an issue with us drafting Mario without him coming to Orlando? "Otis never even brought him in to talk or workout. That is inexcusable." How is this inexcusable? It's completely normal. It's not always easy to bring these guys over when they're in season in their own leagues during the time of the draft. You are grasping at straws to try to make it seem like Otis threw a dart at a board and it landed on Franz and we drafted him (which, in future drafts this may have been the case). The Franz fiasco was embarrassing, no one will deny that--but it could have happened to any GM. The consensus around Franz was that he was indeed going to come to the NBA after he finished out the remaining year on his contract. Our scouting department did their job in meeting/scouting him numerous times. I am not minimizing it, you are simply exaggerating the negative impact it had on our franchise. Would it make you sleep better at night if we just pretend Otis drafted Yaroslav Korolev or Antoine Wright instead? Franz had more upside and was worth the risk based on where we were selecting. What would you have rather Otis done? If you look at who was on the board there, that pick made a ton of sense with Dwight. Otis was not a good GM, I'll continue to say this after every post--but the Franz selection was not one of the reasons I consider him to be a bad GM. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
magicblue 315 Report post Posted April 16, 2017 You are incorrect. It's perfectly normal operating procedure to draft a foreign player without him physically coming to your facility. You are just being whiny at this point for whatever reason, maybe the Easter Bunny wasn't kind to you this year. Again, did you have an issue with us drafting Mario without him coming to Orlando? "Otis never even brought him in to talk or workout. That is inexcusable." How is this inexcusable? It's completely normal. It's not always easy to bring these guys over when they're in season in their own leagues during the time of the draft. You are grasping at straws to try to make it seem like Otis threw a dart at a board and it landed on Franz and we drafted him (which, in future drafts this may have been the case). The Franz fiasco was embarrassing, no one will deny that--but it could have happened to any GM. The consensus around Franz was that he was indeed going to come to the NBA after he finished out the remaining year on his contract. Our scouting department did their job in meeting/scouting him numerous times. I am not minimizing it, you are simply exaggerating the negative impact it had on our franchise. Would it make you sleep better at night if we just pretend Otis drafted Yaroslav Korolev or Antoine Wright instead? Franz had more upside and was worth the risk based on where we were selecting. What would you have rather Otis done? If you look at who was on the board there, that pick made a ton of sense with Dwight. Otis was not a good GM, I'll continue to say this after every post--but the Franz selection was not one of the reasons I consider him to be a bad GM. Way too much to respond to there, it's Easter and this is boring frankly but suffice it to say we could and should have come away with a player that helped the franchise and instead we got snubbed and walked away with nothing. How often has that happened prior to 2005 and how many times has it happened since in the NBA lottery? My response to you was solely because you said a fellow poster was incorrect when, point blank, he wasn't. You giving a myriad of excuses for why it's acceptable and that it could have happened to any team doesn't change the fact that it happened to us and that it could have been avoided by taking the best player still on the draft board, Danny Granger. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the notorious S.A.C. 89 Report post Posted April 17, 2017 Way too much to respond to there, it's Easter and this is boring frankly but suffice it to say we could and should have come away with a player that helped the franchise and instead we got snubbed and walked away with nothing. How often has that happened prior to 2005 and how many times has it happened since in the NBA lottery? My response to you was solely because you said a fellow poster was incorrect when, point blank, he wasn't. You giving a myriad of excuses for why it's acceptable and that it could have happened to any team doesn't change the fact that it happened to us and that it could have been avoided by taking the best player still on the draft board, Danny Granger. My contention is the player you took is your responsibility period. If you dont like your spot MOVE UP OR DOWN OR OUT! If you stay there and take a Mario or Fran thats your baby. GMs have every opportunity to better the team with their pick and that is their job. If they dont make the team better its their fault period. Excuses are for failing teams like ours...winning teams make their luck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HeHateMe 697 Report post Posted April 17, 2017 Way too much to respond to there, it's Easter and this is boring frankly but suffice it to say we could and should have come away with a player that helped the franchise and instead we got snubbed and walked away with nothing. How often has that happened prior to 2005 and how many times has it happened since in the NBA lottery? My response to you was solely because you said a fellow poster was incorrect when, point blank, he wasn't. You giving a myriad of excuses for why it's acceptable and that it could have happened to any team doesn't change the fact that it happened to us and that it could have been avoided by taking the best player still on the draft board, Danny Granger. I didn't make any excuses, I simply explained the Franz situation that some of you obviously weren't fully aware of. He wasn't drafted on a whim. We did our homework on him. You or whoever the other poster was said Otis didn't even bring Franz to Orlando. Well, yea no $hit he didn't. That's not part of the normal draft process for the majority of European players. It's completely normal to just have your scouts and GM go visit them across the globe. They do not have to come to you. That is normal. Trashing Otis Smith for not having Franz physically come to Orlando first is a stupid comment because that's not unusual. To sit there and say we should have taken Granger just doesn't make sense to me. Anyone can look back on any past draft in any sport and say "we should have taken player X, not player Y". Granger was not that high on any of the top draft boards and that's why he fell to 17. I'm all for pinning stuff on Otis Smith, but to sit here over a decade later and say he should have drafted Granger at 11 when no one had him rated that high is just dumb. If Granger went the next pick than sure, you have more of an argument. But he was not as high on GM's draft-boards as you are tirelessly trying to make it seem like. Yes, it did not workout and I agree that the GM has to own that ultimate failure, which it was--but the pick made sense at the time and outside of the top 10 in a weak draft it was worth gambling on. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheNameIsOrlando 310 Report post Posted April 17, 2017 I don't care about Franz we are how many years removed from that? So riddle me this. Somehow I've talked myself into Doc as President of Basketball Ops with Garrity as GM. Someone talk me out of this! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
random 19 Report post Posted April 17, 2017 I don't care about Franz we are how many years removed from that? So riddle me this. Somehow I've talked myself into Doc as President of Basketball Ops with Garrity as GM. Someone talk me out of this! We are getting our PG one way or another. Might not be new point guard or Paul George, but dammit we will get our PG this summer! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masazasm2 16 Report post Posted April 17, 2017 I don't care about Franz we are how many years removed from that? So riddle me this. Somehow I've talked myself into Doc as President of Basketball Ops with Garrity as GM. Someone talk me out of this! Both clips and pistons have gone backwards what have they proven? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
