2017 Official Offseason Thread

[magicdoc1 261]

i don't think we trade DJ. i don't really see that happening.

 

if we somehow trade DJ, i think we go after Rodney Stuckey, Sergio Rodriguez, Beno Udrih, or some sort of reclamation project like Tyler Ennis.

 

Though after thinking about it more, maybe we'd rather have Watson so Vogel doesn't need to get another point guard up to speed.

 

 

but I'm pretty confident we're going into the season with DJ as third string.

IDk. I dont think we are getting another PG.

also, I dont see DJ starting the season as our 3rd string PG yet. Vogel was very high on him last year and one of the reason he was signed. He wanted him here. I see him playing a CJ role if or when CJ is waived/traded.

I just hope we trade DJ. I cant stand seeing him playing more minutes as a Magic.

[Optimist Prime 197]

For the hopeful, watch this:

 

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2017/07/08/elfrid-paytons-finish-to-season-make-orlando-magics-choice-harder/

 

Yeah, we don't want to risk drafting a guy that's too good in a position of need for us. Better to maintain mediocrity so we can evaluate what other positions might need to be upgraded as well. Can't let the starting point guard feel like he needs to get better if he wants to keep his job.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

My point is that you have a roster consisting of 4 back up PG's at 22-23 millions.

 

why do we care what they're making?

[HeHateMe 697]

The important thing to remember is you can never have enough mediocre backup PG's.

[Franchero MVP 391]

From that article "Payton kind of looks like a prime version of Rajon Rondo.".

 

Yeah but unfortunately we don't have Ray Allen, Paul peirce and Kevin Garnett to make it work. Where has rondo gone afterward and succeeded? Yes, I get it's partly due to his personality, but we don't have much precedence here.

[magicdoc1 261]

why do we care what they're making?

Is all about our cap situation. Teams are desperately to create room in thei roster. This is part of the rebuild process. We can get picks by helping other teams to get hnder the cap. Heck, even Brooklyn is doing it. They just got a first round pick by getting some decent talent back. (Carrol on a 2 year rental)

Indianapolis got Corey Joseph and a pick. Joseph is a decent Back up on a similar 2 year contract. They also got a pick on this deal.

[JJZFL 619]

Why would we do that?

 

I dunno. Seemed like kind of a boneheaded move, so it would be a good fit (I wasn't being completely serious with my comment above).

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

IDk. I dont think we are getting another PG.

also, I dont see DJ starting the season as our 3rd string PG yet. Vogel was very high on him last year and one of the reason he was signed. He wanted him here. I see him playing a CJ role if or when CJ is waived/traded.

I just hope we trade DJ. I cant stand seeing him playing more minutes as a Magic.

 

yeah, but things change.

 

 

DJ was signed as a shooting backup when we were set on playing slow, possession controlled basketball with a payton-fournier-gordon-ibaka-biyombo lineup. We changed the way we played offense post all star (which is why we saw payton flourish a bit) and augustin's already limited value took a nosedive. Augustin had 23 games where he had a positive +/-. only 2 occurred post all star. neither was above a +3. Augustin played 21 games post all star. in 9 games he had a -13 or worse.

 

If Vogel is worth anything more than out of bounds plays post timeouts then he's got to see this.

[magicdoc1 261]

yeah, but things change.

 

 

DJ was signed as a shooting backup when we were set on playing slow, possession controlled basketball with a payton-fournier-gordon-ibaka-biyombo lineup. We changed the way we played offense post all star (which is why we saw payton flourish a bit) and augustin's already limited value took a nosedive. Augustin had 23 games where he had a positive +/-. only 2 occurred post all star. neither was above a +3. Augustin played 21 games post all star. in 9 games he had a -13 or worse.

 

If Vogel is worth anything more than out of bounds plays post timeouts then he's got to see this.

I really hope so. I was hoping to see Mario playing some time at the point as well. I think they have no Idea what to do with Mario.

They have said he can play the point but also play the PF position. Yet, we rarely see him play is natural position at SG.

[Magicman28 295]

i don't think we trade DJ. i don't really see that happening.

 

if we somehow trade DJ, i think we go after Rodney Stuckey, Sergio Rodriguez, Beno Udrih, or some sort of reclamation project like Tyler Ennis.

 

Though after thinking about it more, maybe we'd rather have Watson so Vogel doesn't need to get another point guard up to speed.

 

 

but I'm pretty confident we're going into the season with DJ as third string.

 

I agree so why wait until the last minute on Watson? Why not just do it?

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Is all about our cap situation. Teams are desperately to create room in thei roster. This is part of the rebuild process. We can get picks by helping other teams to get hnder the cap. Heck, even Brooklyn is doing it. They just got a first round pick by getting some decent talent back. (Carrol on a 2 year rental)

Indianapolis got Corey Joseph and a pick. Joseph is a decent Back up on a similar 2 year contract. They also got a pick on this deal.

 

we can't change the fact that we paid augustin last summer.

 

we never had enough space to do a Brooklyn deal.

 

we have 101.2 million in salaries and cap holds between augustin, Fournier, biyombo, ross, Mario, Isaac, vucevic, Gordon, and Payton. That doesn't include Mack at whatever he's making, 2.7 million in roster holds, and our first round pick next year.

 

Beyond that, there's no real great free agents to make a run at next year. Pretty much Cousins, Avery Bradley, Will Barton as the guys who are decent bets to leave their teams.

 

so 1. why are we worried about dropping salary now? the likely cost (i.e. a first round pick) to dropping augustin or biyombo isn't worth it right now. especially when dumping augustin doesn't get us much closer to a max offer next summer.

 

2. why wouldn't we just let the cap space play out until the summer of 2019? the cost to drop 1 year of augustin is going to be massively cheaper than 3 years of augustin. Same with Biyombo. same with Fournier. Plus we'd be dumping salary with the intent of signing a specific free agent that we've already negotiated with, not hypothetical future cap space.

 

 

and if we're ultimately building for 2019, why do we care if any free agent we sign this summer is making 6 million or 100 million as long as the cost isn't pushed into 2019?

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I agree so why wait until the last minute on Watson? Why not just do it?

 

i think they were waiting for last minute deals. It'd be stupid if we waived him on Saturday only for, i dunno, Utah to really want to sign KCP or something like that and we could steal Exum if only we had a way to cut salary for them.