Officially Official Gamethread: Grizzlies @ Magic 12/26/16

[JJZFL 618]

yeah but meeks isn't really tony allen out there either.

 

That's the whole thing with Fournier. take the ball out of his hands. He can do a few things at a really high level so why not just focus on those things?

 

Meeks may not be a great individual defender but there is no question that our team defense has looked a great deal better with him in and Founier out. Again, sample size of only two games but the effect was very large. I wouldn't want to say that this is simply random variation. It might be real.

[Franchero MVP 391]

Fournier stops acting like he's Jimmy Butler and plays more like Kyle Korver and everyone is happy.

 

 

FTFY

 

But yeah, I like him in that role.

[magicjed23 12]

We run the offense through Vucevic because it's very effective. Fournier and Vucevic have been here through the rebuild and have been the most consistent. Those are meant to be our biggest weapons on offense and after they overcame a slow start that has held true. They are supposed to look for each other first. Not sure what is so hard to understand as Gordon is the least effective shooter/scorer besides Payton (who runs the offense which leads to getting the ball) in the rotation. Biyombo's proximity to the rim leads to him getting passes off of defending drivers and cutters, he is usually the closest player. That is where AG use to get his points, but we obviously can't play Biz on the perimeter. Let's not forget that Fournier is not great at assisting others. Last year with Oladipo, we had two PG's essentially, that could hit AG around the rim when open.

 

I know we loved Gordon last night and against the Clippers not too long ago, but the team is not hindering Gordon. He just has to make the shots he gets and learn where other shots are available. When a play breaks down he needs to become available where he can do damage at a high rate. He is learning and taking better shots, but he still has a long way to go. He is not going back to PF, so he has to learn SF or come off the bench. Gordon is not the player we saw last night that is just being held back. He has all the freedom he needs to be that guy someday but he simply isn't that player yet. If anything, the need for someone to step up made it obvious where his opportunities are and he happened to get hot at a good time. He just has to remember that it's there for the taking if he gets in place at the right time. If you make shots, Vogel and the offense will find you.

 

A few notes about the Clippers game. Vucevic did not play and we had need for players to step up. Gordon, Green, and Fournier did just that and we still lost, which matters far more than stats. Gordon played 7 more minutes than anyone, and besides Griffin, nobody on that team can guard him especially when Jordan had to deal with Ibaka, Biyombo, and the designated fouler Rudez. Griffin is the one who played Gordon most, and occasionally Ibaka or Biyombo, and he is not exactly a good defender, let's not forget that everyone of his touches he made us look bad. Gordon also took 21 shots and Fournier took 17, so they can play together and as we saw last night AG can play with Vucevic. In this game Gordon hit four 3's which were assisted by Payton, Green hit 4 also and we had 14 as a team. Gordon had several tip ins and several drives that led to scores and two alley-oop plays. Two assist were from Payton. We all know Fournier spends most of his time running around screens looking for shots and if you watch, Gordon is usually on the opposite side where he can take 3's, drive when Fournier is on the opposite side running around screens, or crash the boards once a shot goes up for put backs while Ibaka and Biyombo box out. Gordon aggressively pursued those opportunities that game and scored more.

 

Gordon has the same opportunities anytime there is a pick and roll on the opposite side. He needs to keep defenders guessing when he has open 3's and know when he has a driving lane, and before he drives he needs to find outlets incase he is cut off. The unscripted things are where he needs to be consistent and realize that he doesn't have to be a PF to get those putbacks and tip ins. And as the team improves, he is going to get more and more chances. If Gordon gets an open 3 with a defender closing, he has to decide to shoot or drive. If he shoots, he needs to find an opening for a second shot or go to get a putback. If he decides not to shoot, he needs to drive while having an outlet idea. If he gets to the goal great, if forced to pass, he needs to continue towards the hoop for a pass back or get in rebonding position or he needs to go find another opening for a shot. On fast breaks it's alley oops and putbacks and if the paint is clogged, he can step back for a 2 or 3, with the option to drive for a dunk or pass to a secondary break with a cutting big man or a spot up shooter and then get ready for a rebound, putback or getting a pass back for an open shot. He must always be moving and aggressive. If you think of his defensive abilities against SF's and the plethora of options that I described that are almost always available as a SF, he can score with waiting for passes. If he gets good at that and adds a few moves to get his own shots over the next few seasons, he can be scoring like Shawn Marion did.

 

Gordon just has to figure it out. He might not get passes from Fournier, but Parton and Vucevic give him the ball often. But, he is still best going and getting the ball. The shots am there, he just needs to knock them down. Our team goal is to win, not get AG to score more. As he improves, the points will come. He is a good PF, but he has the skills and ability to be an even better SF in time. His prime is years away still.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

We run the offense through Vucevic because it's very effective. Fournier and Vucevic have been here through the rebuild and have been the most consistent. Those are meant to be our biggest weapons on offense and after they overcame a slow start that has held true. They are supposed to look for each other first. Not sure what is so hard to understand as Gordon is the least effective shooter/scorer besides Payton (who runs the offense which leads to getting the ball) in the rotation. Biyombo's proximity to the rim leads to him getting passes off of defending drivers and cutters, he is usually the closest player. That is where AG use to get his points, but we obviously can't play Biz on the perimeter. Let's not forget that Fournier is not great at assisting others. Last year with Oladipo, we had two PG's essentially, that could hit AG around the rim when open.

 

I know we loved Gordon last night and against the Clippers not too long ago, but the team is not hindering Gordon. He just has to make the shots he gets and learn where other shots are available. When a play breaks down he needs to become available where he can do damage at a high rate. He is learning and taking better shots, but he still has a long way to go. He is not going back to PF, so he has to learn SF or come off the bench. Gordon is not the player we saw last night that is just being held back. He has all the freedom he needs to be that guy someday but he simply isn't that player yet. If anything, the need for someone to step up made it obvious where his opportunities are and he happened to get hot at a good time. He just has to remember that it's there for the taking if he gets in place at the right time. If you make shots, Vogel and the offense will find you.

 

A few notes about the Clippers game. Vucevic did not play and we had need for players to step up. Gordon, Green, and Fournier did just that and we still lost, which matters far more than stats. Gordon played 7 more minutes than anyone, and besides Griffin, nobody on that team can guard him especially when Jordan had to deal with Ibaka, Biyombo, and the designated fouler Rudez. Griffin is the one who played Gordon most, and occasionally Ibaka or Biyombo, and he is not exactly a good defender, let's not forget that everyone of his touches he made us look bad. Gordon also took 21 shots and Fournier took 17, so they can play together and as we saw last night AG can play with Vucevic. In this game Gordon hit four 3's which were assisted by Payton, Green hit 4 also and we had 14 as a team. Gordon had several tip ins and several drives that led to scores and two alley-oop plays. Two assist were from Payton. We all know Fournier spends most of his time running around screens looking for shots and if you watch, Gordon is usually on the opposite side where he can take 3's, drive when Fournier is on the opposite side running around screens, or crash the boards once a shot goes up for put backs while Ibaka and Biyombo box out. Gordon aggressively pursued those opportunities that game and scored more.

 

Gordon has the same opportunities anytime there is a pick and roll on the opposite side. He needs to keep defenders guessing when he has open 3's and know when he has a driving lane, and before he drives he needs to find outlets incase he is cut off. The unscripted things are where he needs to be consistent and realize that he doesn't have to be a PF to get those putbacks and tip ins. And as the team improves, he is going to get more and more chances. If Gordon gets an open 3 with a defender closing, he has to decide to shoot or drive. If he shoots, he needs to find an opening for a second shot or go to get a putback. If he decides not to shoot, he needs to drive while having an outlet idea. If he gets to the goal great, if forced to pass, he needs to continue towards the hoop for a pass back or get in rebonding position or he needs to go find another opening for a shot. On fast breaks it's alley oops and putbacks and if the paint is clogged, he can step back for a 2 or 3, with the option to drive for a dunk or pass to a secondary break with a cutting big man or a spot up shooter and then get ready for a rebound, putback or getting a pass back for an open shot. He must always be moving and aggressive. If you think of his defensive abilities against SF's and the plethora of options that I described that are almost always available as a SF, he can score with waiting for passes. If he gets good at that and adds a few moves to get his own shots over the next few seasons, he can be scoring like Shawn Marion did.

 

Gordon just has to figure it out. He might not get passes from Fournier, but Parton and Vucevic give him the ball often. But, he is still best going and getting the ball. The shots am there, he just needs to knock them down. Our team goal is to win, not get AG to score more. As he improves, the points will come. He is a good PF, but he has the skills and ability to be an even better SF in time. His prime is years away still.

 

I'm not going to talk about how ineffective Vucevic is on offense every single day

[Mauro Pedrosa 1,031]

I'm not going to talk about how ineffective Vucevic is on offense every single day

When you can run your offense through a Center shooting 44% for the season you just gotta do it ;)

 

[Magicman28 295]

We run the offense through Vucevic because it's very effective. Fournier and Vucevic have been here through the rebuild and have been the most consistent. Those are meant to be our biggest weapons on offense and after they overcame a slow start that has held true. They are supposed to look for each other first. Not sure what is so hard to understand as Gordon is the least effective shooter/scorer besides Payton (who runs the offense which leads to getting the ball) in the rotation. Biyombo's proximity to the rim leads to him getting passes off of defending drivers and cutters, he is usually the closest player. That is where AG use to get his points, but we obviously can't play Biz on the perimeter. Let's not forget that Fournier is not great at assisting others. Last year with Oladipo, we had two PG's essentially, that could hit AG around the rim when open.

 

I know we loved Gordon last night and against the Clippers not too long ago, but the team is not hindering Gordon. He just has to make the shots he gets and learn where other shots are available. When a play breaks down he needs to become available where he can do damage at a high rate. He is learning and taking better shots, but he still has a long way to go. He is not going back to PF, so he has to learn SF or come off the bench. Gordon is not the player we saw last night that is just being held back. He has all the freedom he needs to be that guy someday but he simply isn't that player yet. If anything, the need for someone to step up made it obvious where his opportunities are and he happened to get hot at a good time. He just has to remember that it's there for the taking if he gets in place at the right time. If you make shots, Vogel and the offense will find you.

 

A few notes about the Clippers game. Vucevic did not play and we had need for players to step up. Gordon, Green, and Fournier did just that and we still lost, which matters far more than stats. Gordon played 7 more minutes than anyone, and besides Griffin, nobody on that team can guard him especially when Jordan had to deal with Ibaka, Biyombo, and the designated fouler Rudez. Griffin is the one who played Gordon most, and occasionally Ibaka or Biyombo, and he is not exactly a good defender, let's not forget that everyone of his touches he made us look bad. Gordon also took 21 shots and Fournier took 17, so they can play together and as we saw last night AG can play with Vucevic. In this game Gordon hit four 3's which were assisted by Payton, Green hit 4 also and we had 14 as a team. Gordon had several tip ins and several drives that led to scores and two alley-oop plays. Two assist were from Payton. We all know Fournier spends most of his time running around screens looking for shots and if you watch, Gordon is usually on the opposite side where he can take 3's, drive when Fournier is on the opposite side running around screens, or crash the boards once a shot goes up for put backs while Ibaka and Biyombo box out. Gordon aggressively pursued those opportunities that game and scored more.

 

Gordon has the same opportunities anytime there is a pick and roll on the opposite side. He needs to keep defenders guessing when he has open 3's and know when he has a driving lane, and before he drives he needs to find outlets incase he is cut off. The unscripted things are where he needs to be consistent and realize that he doesn't have to be a PF to get those putbacks and tip ins. And as the team improves, he is going to get more and more chances. If Gordon gets an open 3 with a defender closing, he has to decide to shoot or drive. If he shoots, he needs to find an opening for a second shot or go to get a putback. If he decides not to shoot, he needs to drive while having an outlet idea. If he gets to the goal great, if forced to pass, he needs to continue towards the hoop for a pass back or get in rebonding position or he needs to go find another opening for a shot. On fast breaks it's alley oops and putbacks and if the paint is clogged, he can step back for a 2 or 3, with the option to drive for a dunk or pass to a secondary break with a cutting big man or a spot up shooter and then get ready for a rebound, putback or getting a pass back for an open shot. He must always be moving and aggressive. If you think of his defensive abilities against SF's and the plethora of options that I described that are almost always available as a SF, he can score with waiting for passes. If he gets good at that and adds a few moves to get his own shots over the next few seasons, he can be scoring like Shawn Marion did.

 

Gordon just has to figure it out. He might not get passes from Fournier, but Parton and Vucevic give him the ball often. But, he is still best going and getting the ball. The shots am there, he just needs to knock them down. Our team goal is to win, not get AG to score more. As he improves, the points will come. He is a good PF, but he has the skills and ability to be an even better SF in time. His prime is years away still.

 

 

Maybe at first as we bring along AG and Payton but we're obviously headed in another direction. Evidence is Biz promoted to a starter.

[Odin 137]

I'm not going to talk about how ineffective Vucevic is on offense every single day

 

It is weird how inefficient he has been this year.