2016-2017 Season Discussion Thread

[JJZFL 619]

lost in this depressing time, Payton is starting to become much more consistent. Last 18 games 14.4 and 6.9 on 49/36/71 shooting and most importantly 13 productive games to 5 unproductive games.

 

What's our record in those 18 games, though? I have to say I'm getting tired of players putting up good stats that don't translate into wins (Vukevic, anyone?). We need players, especially the point guard, who make the other players on the floor with them better.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

What's our record in those 18 games, though? I have to say I'm getting tired of players putting up good stats that don't translate into wins (Vukevic, anyone?). We need players, especially the point guard, who make the other players on the floor with them better.

 

True. But we're 8 points per 100 posessions better with him on the floor than Augustin. That's something

[TheNameIsOrlando 310]

I better understand where you were coming from.

 

At our current hypothetical draft location (9) I would say the current BPA's are a PF or SF. There are a bunch of pg's ahead of #9, but we are already in a league full of good pg's. That's the deepest position in the league right now. I only think Fultz and Ball have for sure higher ceilings than Payton, not sold on the others yet (Smith included).

 

Edit: the reason I mention this is because if we were truly interested in upgrading our pg spot then we could trade our pick for an already league-capable pg that perhaps have already gotten past the development phase of pg growth.

 

Gotcha...I watch very little college ball so my knowledge is limited. Let's hope we drop a few more spots. Being that Gordon can play SF/PF I rather draft another position.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I better understand where you were coming from.

 

At our current hypothetical draft location (9) I would say the current BPA's are a PF or SF. There are a bunch of pg's ahead of #9, but we are already in a league full of good pg's. That's the deepest position in the league right now. I only think Fultz and Ball have for sure higher ceilings than Payton, not sold on the others yet (Smith included).

 

Edit: the reason I mention this is because if we were truly interested in upgrading our pg spot then we could trade our pick for an already league-capable pg that perhaps have already gotten past the development phase of pg growth.

 

Eh, Smith is Westbrookish.

[Magicman28 295]

Asked if the Magic still can make a run to reach the playoffs, Vucevic answered, “Yeah. I mean, we all hope so. But we have to figure it out soon. Otherwise it’s going to be over very soon for all of us.”

[TheNameIsOrlando 310]

I better understand where you were coming from.

 

At our current hypothetical draft location (9) I would say the current BPA's are a PF or SF. There are a bunch of pg's ahead of #9, but we are already in a league full of good pg's. That's the deepest position in the league right now. I only think Fultz and Ball have for sure higher ceilings than Payton, not sold on the others yet (Smith included).

 

Edit: the reason I mention this is because if we were truly interested in upgrading our pg spot then we could trade our pick for an already league-capable pg that perhaps have already gotten past the development phase of pg growth.

 

What league-capable PG do you have in mind and what are we giving up?

 

I rather go with the younger draft guy being that we don't know when and where we are going.

[TheNameIsOrlando 310]

At this point in the season how have we played 4 more games than the 6ers?

 

I feel like the games should be more balanced. Weird game scheduling if you ask me.

[Murphy13 185]

Eh, Smith is Westbrookish.

 

That's a mighty fine distinction. I'll be honest, I haven't see him play since the new year, I missed his triple double. He looks like a Bledsoe type player to me though, complete with the 3 year learning curve at the next level. Someone I work with thinks he may have the caliber of a Steve Francis-which isn't bad at all. But, learning curve, time, mentality, etc...

 

What league-capable PG do you have in mind and what are we giving up?

 

I rather go with the younger draft guy being that we don't know when and where we are going.

 

If we are talking about a non-specific Fultz type talent or the like I would draft them and trade Payton for whatever-literally. I would hope in this scenario that we are looking at a potential 10+ year starter out the gate and would be willing to hit reset on the build.

 

As far as league-capable pg's a (somewhat) popular name that's been thrown around here is Bledsoe. He has some baggage (health, etc) but represents the idea well. What it would take to make a trade happen is beyond me, I would be reluctant to include a higher pick (say top 5), but I would consider giving them our pick if its in the 8-14 range. PHX likes making trades like that, and in a vacuum we get what we are missing. He wouldn't be top choice, I would try swinging for the fences and offering the pick (if top 5) and someone like AG for Wall if they start fading. I doubt they'd say yes to that, but I would add on to make it work-whether its future picks or another player like Fournier, Nik, or one of the pf's. The specifics of the trades weren't my focus, it was what we would be left with afterward. Other more realistic names I think would fit some of these molds would be Zach Lavine, Avery Bradley, Reggie Jackson, Mudiay, D Russell to varying levels. The list goes on honestly.

 

Equipped with a combination of a decent lotto pick, a decent pg (Payton), a decent scorer (Fournier), a decent prospect (AG), and decent bigs (Nik/Ibaka) I think any of those players would fill in and allow us to focus in other areas IF we were to rid ourselves of Payton. That said I believe Payton is part of the solution and should not be traded or replaced! He's the only one I see much of a future with on our team except AG and Mario. I would rather trade Ibaka and our pick to Boston for the #1 pick early (like yesterday), then place calls to other teams and see what kind of vets might be available for the number 1 pick in a pretty deep draft. Not sure where it would take us, but we would be in the drivers seat.

 

Other random trades I wouldn't hate (assumption is we have #9 pick):

-keep #9 pick, see if Ibaka can net us PHX or DAL pick and take Josh Jackson. With our pick take Lauri Markkanen. Rebuild would be complete, just let it mature. Run out Payton, Mario/Fournier, Josh Jackson, AG/Lauri, Nik/Biz. The latter 4 could be interchangeable. Sign vets to solidify depth, prepare for life w/o Nik.

-Trade out of this draft altogether, trade our pick for Jae Crowder/Nic Batum. Run out a lineup with Payton, Mario/Fournier, Jae/Bat, and our frontcourt. Hope that we can score more than the other guy.

-Find a way to get Gordon Hayward.

 

This is too long, I'm going to stop.

[Jay Magic 1,239]

Elfrid Payton's averages over the last 3 games: 22.3 points, 9.3 assists, 5.7 boards, 1 steal and 51.9 percent shooting from the field.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Elfrid Payton's averages over the last 3 games: 22.3 points, 9.3 assists, 5.7 boards, 1 steal and 51.9 percent shooting from the field.

 

3 game samples don't mean much.

 

never forget http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sessira01/gamelog/2008#15-17-sum:pgl_basic

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

its really difficult to discuss Payton right now because we're losing, he's got a history of rapid shifts in performance, he's only in year 3.

 

But we should all be on alert that the narrative might be changing.

 

or he's just having another good stretch that will give way to a bad stretch soon.

 

but right now he's on a 18 game stretch where we're looking at 5 (maybe 6 depending on how you view that Brooklyn game because it's right on the borderline) unproductive games to 13 (or 12) highly productive games. That's closer to what we need from him.

 

 

but he also did this last year over a 21 game span which was then supplanted by a stretch where he was unproductive in 12 out of 18 games

 

 

 

so should we be on notice for a massive drop in performance? or is this finally the time where he becomes the player we need him to be?

[magicblue 315]

its really difficult to discuss Payton right now because we're losing, he's got a history of rapid shifts in performance, he's only in year 3.

 

But we should all be on alert that the narrative might be changing.

 

or he's just having another good stretch that will give way to a bad stretch soon.

 

but right now he's on a 18 game stretch where we're looking at 5 (maybe 6 depending on how you view that Brooklyn game because it's right on the borderline) unproductive games to 13 (or 12) highly productive games. That's closer to what we need from him.

 

 

but he also did this last year over a 21 game span which was then supplanted by a stretch where he was unproductive in 12 out of 18 games

 

 

 

so should we be on notice for a massive drop in performance? or is this finally the time where he becomes the player we need him to be?

 

Probably too early to tell but the 2nd half of the season should provide the answer.