2016-2017 Season Discussion Thread

[Ibn Battuta 127]

Payton: 4th coach in 4 years, 4th offensive scheme in 4 years, 4th defensive scheme in 4 years, 4th roster in 4 years. How on God's Green Earth is he not TORCHING the entire league and rewriting the record books?????????

 

I'd like to understand how any of the above relates to his shooting mechanics or decision making or effort on defense. Also pretty sure this is third year in the league but don't let that stop you from exaggerating your point.

[Air Gordon 156]

I'd like to understand how any of the above relates to his shooting mechanics or decision making or effort on defense. Also pretty sure this is third year in the league but don't let that stop you from exaggerating your point.

I know it's early, but EP is currently tied in 10th in the NBA in assist to turnover ratio at 3.7/1... look, I know some people give Payton a pass for his struggles last year and some people are extremely critical and have already decided he sucks and he always will, but he's been arguably our best player through 5 games this year.

[magicblue 315]

Payton: 4th coach in 4 years, 4th offensive scheme in 4 years, 4th defensive scheme in 4 years, 4th roster in 4 years. How on God's Green Earth is he not TORCHING the entire league and rewriting the record books?????????

 

Good points, aside from this being his 3rd year in the league not 4th.

[jec 427]

I know it's early, but EP is currently tied in 10th in the NBA in assist to turnover ratio at 3.7/1... look, I know some people give Payton a pass for his struggles last year and some people are extremely critical and have already decided he sucks and he always will, but he's been arguably our best player through 5 games this year.

 

Yes but what about his free throw to steal ratio?

[Air Gordon 156]

Yes but what about his free throw to steal ratio?

.6 steals per game and 3.2 free throw attempts per game... so roughly 5.3 free throw attempts per steal... if you want to go in to that a little more, he's averaging 2.2 free throws made a game, so about 3.67 free throws made per steal... :-)

[Odin 137]

I have seen a lot about how Mario sucks and how so many other sophomores have figured it all out.

 

Looking into it, there are a bunch of other sophomores that are currently struggling.

 

Other Sophomores that are currently struggling drafted in the first round

 

Jahil Okafor PER 13.5 TS% 48.3% WS/48 .025 Box +/- -5.1

Willie Cauley-Stein PER 2.9 TS% 42.8% WS/48 -.054 Box +/- -5.8

Emmanuel Mudiay PER 7.2 TS% 41.3% WS/48 -.07 Box +/- -4.7

Stanley Johnson PER 1 TS% 17.8% WS/48 -.055 Box +/- -3.1

Justise Winslow PER 8.9 TS% 41% WS/48 -.002 Box +/- -.9

Trey Lyles PER 5.9 TS% 40.4% WS/48 -.049 Box +/- -5.4

Devin Booker PER 7 TS% 53.5% WS/48 -.068 Box +/- -6.8

Kelly Oubre PER 3.6 TS% 41% WS/48 -.108 Box +/- -5.7

Sam Dekker PER 10.3 TS% 52.3% WS/48 .031 Box +/- -5.9

Rondae Hollis-J PER .9 TS% 22.2% WS/48 -.106 Box +/- -4.6

Tyrus Hones PER 7.2 TS% 25% ws/48 .041 Box +/- -3.3

Jarell Martin PER 9.7 TS% 50.1 WS/48 .026 Box +/- -6.1

 

Jahil is in here because his advanced metrics are all a good deal below last year.

 

So, of the 30 first round picks, 12 are playing poorly, 7 or so are playing well, and the rest either have barely played, are doing mediocre to below par (but better than the ones listed above), or haven't played at all.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I have seen a lot about how Mario sucks and how so many other sophomores have figured it all out.

 

Looking into it, there are a bunch of other sophomores that are currently struggling.

 

Other Sophomores that are currently struggling drafted in the first round

 

Jahil Okafor PER 13.5 TS% 48.3% WS/48 .025 Box +/- -5.1

Willie Cauley-Stein PER 2.9 TS% 42.8% WS/48 -.054 Box +/- -5.8

Emmanuel Mudiay PER 7.2 TS% 41.3% WS/48 -.07 Box +/- -4.7

Stanley Johnson PER 1 TS% 17.8% WS/48 -.055 Box +/- -3.1

Justise Winslow PER 8.9 TS% 41% WS/48 -.002 Box +/- -.9

Trey Lyles PER 5.9 TS% 40.4% WS/48 -.049 Box +/- -5.4

Devin Booker PER 7 TS% 53.5% WS/48 -.068 Box +/- -6.8

Kelly Oubre PER 3.6 TS% 41% WS/48 -.108 Box +/- -5.7

Sam Dekker PER 10.3 TS% 52.3% WS/48 .031 Box +/- -5.9

Rondae Hollis-J PER .9 TS% 22.2% WS/48 -.106 Box +/- -4.6

Tyrus Hones PER 7.2 TS% 25% ws/48 .041 Box +/- -3.3

Jarell Martin PER 9.7 TS% 50.1 WS/48 .026 Box +/- -6.1

 

Jahil is in here because his advanced metrics are all a good deal below last year.

 

So, of the 30 first round picks, 12 are playing poorly, 7 or so are playing well, and the rest either have barely played, are doing mediocre to below par (but better than the ones listed above), or haven't played at all.

 

I know you're trying to provide perspective but the point "Mario sucks to start the year but everyone is sucking" doesn't really help if the eventual outcome is "everyone sucks in that draft".

[Odin 137]

I know you're trying to provide perspective but the point "Mario sucks to start the year but everyone is sucking" doesn't really help if the eventual outcome is "everyone sucks in that draft".

 

That is very true, but most of them are performing worse than they were last year. To me, that means there is a good chance this is a statistical anomaly and most will bounce back. The end result could be that "most players from the 2015 draft suck" or it could be a "these are all sophomores, who tend to struggle". Small sample size and all of that.

 

Hopefully they improve and Mario improves, but right now, he is not an exception to his draft in performance.

[Ibn Battuta 127]

That is very true, but most of them are performing worse than they were last year. To me, that means there is a good chance this is a statistical anomaly and most will bounce back. The end result could be that "most players from the 2015 draft suck" or it could be a "these are all sophomores, who tend to struggle". Small sample size and all of that.

 

Hopefully they improve and Mario improves, but right now, he is not an exception to his draft in performance.

 

Or we could be looking for something that isn't there.

[HighAngleDad 36]

Final season in college, now in his 3rd in the NBA. Doing some basic math, this is his 4th consecutive year on basically a brand new team.

 

I'd like to understand how any of the above relates to his shooting mechanics or decision making or effort on defense. Also pretty sure this is third year in the league but don't let that stop you from exaggerating your point.

[HighAngleDad 36]

For a point guard it is a team effort. He has to know where every player is, but that hinges on every player knowing where they are supposed to be and actually being there. Our issues are team offense and team defense which will improve as the players mesh. Also, try counting from his final year in college and you will get four consecutive years with a new coach, a new offense, a new defense, and a lot of new faces on the roster.

 

I'd like to understand how any of the above relates to his shooting mechanics or decision making or effort on defense. Also pretty sure this is third year in the league but don't let that stop you from exaggerating your point.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

For a point guard it is a team effort. He has to know where every player is, but that hinges on every player knowing where they are supposed to be and actually being there. Our issues are team offense and team defense which will improve as the players mesh. Also, try counting from his final year in college and you will get four consecutive years with a new coach, a new offense, a new defense, and a lot of new faces on the roster.

 

every player has to know where every player is.

 

 

Payton's been good this year but your reasoning is weird. it has more to do with the offense being tailored to Payton's strengths and that giving payton confidence (or Vogel just reaching Payton better than skiles did but we'll never be able to verify that unless someone comes out and says it).