Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted July 6, 2017 Seriously, John wall can get by EVERYONE. Give me a break. Excuses Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fan for too long 2 530 Report post Posted July 6, 2017 Excuses check the 3:20 mark out. That's Chris Paul getting blown by. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soul Bro 1,419 Report post Posted July 6, 2017 Check out Payton's DRPM: https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted July 6, 2017 check the 3:20 mark out. That's Chris Paul getting blown by. Yes. Sometimes this happens to other players too. Occasionally Rudy Gobert gets dunked on. That doesn't mean vucevic is a good defender. With Payton that happens with John wall but it also happens with Tyler Johnson. That's the problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fan for too long 2 530 Report post Posted July 6, 2017 Check out Payton's DRPM: https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1 Better than Evans and exactly the same as Gordon. So what is your point? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicman28 295 Report post Posted July 6, 2017 Better than Evans and exactly the same as Gordon. So what is your point? So are you saying EP is good defensively or what? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted July 6, 2017 Better than Evans and exactly the same as Gordon. So what is your point? RPM is a bad stat that often gets impacted by rotation situations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted July 6, 2017 The other issue is that RPM doesn’t care how those scores are accumulated, only who’s on the floor when it happens. Euclid-based scout Bob Chaikin, helped pioneer the use of statistical simulations to aid in the evaluations of players and teams, and currently scouts for the Miami Heat. Chaikin hates RPM, because it’s “not real data.” “If you have two sets of data from two different seasons where the data is completely identical for every player involved, they would say it was different because of what happened during the other 12 minutes of the game [so called, off-court time which sort of becomes a “control”],” Chaikin complains. “That makes absolutely no sense.” He breaks out another example: “You have a guy play 36 minutes, shoot 0-8 from the field and makes five turnovers those are his only stats, but his team does well…Another guy shoots 8-8, has five steals and no turnovers but his team does poorly, RPM will say that the first guy did better. Does that that make any sense?” https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2016/05/04/real-plus-minus-the-bogus-new-stat-everyones-using Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Murphy13 185 Report post Posted July 6, 2017 Just because a stat has holes in it doesn't mean its meaningless, all stats have weaknesses. It is meaningless to show clips of Payton getting beat however. No point guard in the league doesn't have a bevy of clips of him getting beat off the dribble or in plays. They guard the ball more than anyone, they spend more minutes on active defense than anyone. Payton isn't a bad defender, he isn't a good defender. His defense is not something that should be a point of contention right now, we all want it to improve, but in reality it's not that bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted July 6, 2017 but in reality it's not that bad. you can keep saying that. doesn't make it true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fan for too long 2 530 Report post Posted July 6, 2017 So are you saying EP is good defensively or what? I'm saying his defense is one of the least of this teams worries. He gets lost at times like every other player. He also has better stats overall than most players on this team. Consistent coaches and the direction this coach takes this team should help this year. Hopefully, but to throw Payton under the bus and say he is the major problem is just wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted July 6, 2017 I'm saying his defense is one of the least of this teams worries. He gets lost at times like every other player. He also has better stats overall than most players on this team. Consistent coaches and the direction this coach takes this team should help this year. Hopefully, but to throw Payton under the bus and say he is the major problem is just wrong. he can't get through a screen when the number one thing teams do now is screen. maybe switching everything helps him. Payton isn't THE major problem. He's A major problem. and we're slowly entering a timeframe where we need to make a choice on him. You give me one reasonable move to make this offseason and it's getting a player that can move augustin out of the rotation. We'll still be fine with Payton starting. But at the same time throwing another year of payton out there where he screws up angles on offense really makes things more difficult for everyone around him. And what do we pay him next year? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
