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2017 NBA Draft Thread

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Go read the last few pages. They're people who's doing exactly that.

 

It's crazy too because his first year he showed a lot like P4TW said.

 

Its weird because if his seasons were flipped we'd be optimistic. So is that recency bias? Or is the last season more valuable in determining who he is?

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Quite a few of us thought Mario didn't show much during his rookie year either. We will see, but unlike Magicman28 I don't hold out huge hopes for his improvement due to what he's doing over the summer. In fact I think the whole notion is ridiculous.

 

In one of the articles Catalina linked where it said Mario was "on thin ice", I couldn't help noticing the first sentence that talked about us having four top-35 picks in a deep draft or something to that effect. If only that had been true.........

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Its weird because if his seasons were flipped we'd be optimistic. So is that recency bias? Or is the last season more valuable in determining who he is?

I'm on the throw last year out and forget about it train. Brand new coaching staff comes with a whole new defensive scheme and Mario spends the summer doing Olympic basketball. He didn't even see the court for half of the season because of it and it killed his confidence. I'd like to see what he does with a full summer under Vogel under his belt with time to learn without games every other day.

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Im still high on Mario and think he can a key contributor for us. A core of Mario/Isaac/Gordon can be pretty special. Like REALLY good! If Elf can be more useful off-ball (and improve his defense/3-ball), he can be a great fit for that trio. Someone like....Pat Beverly.

 

People think we're far, but i think we're closer. This is a big year.

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Question related to Mario. Why hasn't his handle improved? He doesn't need one coach to work on that, he doesn't need someone to work with him, it is one thing that is 100% within his control.

 

This is the type of thing that really pisses me off. Shooting percentages aside we should see a deficiency like this improve from year to year a especially from a guard that has the athletic ability to attack and finish. If he doesn't come back with at least that I'm done with him.

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Mario is on a similar trajectory career wise as JJ. Bad coaching his rookie year but still showed he had the ability. New coach comes in and he has to learn how to ply a different scheme so his stats drop off. Willing to bed he has a much better offseason now that he has stayed stateside and worked with better coaching and S&C work. Should show marked improvement.

 

Vogel is also under different parameters this season. He had to try and win last year to start so he couldn't let Mario and AG to a lesser extent develop in game. Now he won't have that pressure as it's pretty clear we are starting over. He will be able to have Isaac, Gordon and Mario play together and not lose sleep when we win less than 30 games but the core grows. If Elf shows up too it will be a nice surprise. Add a Center in the 2018 draft and keep going.

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Question related to Mario. Why hasn't his handle improved? He doesn't need one coach to work on that, he doesn't need someone to work with him, it is one thing that is 100% within his control.

 

This is the type of thing that really pisses me off. Shooting percentages aside we should see a deficiency like this improve from year to year a especially from a guard that has the athletic ability to attack and finish. If he doesn't come back with at least that I'm done with him.

Last year really seemed like nerves. It seemed like once he finally got on the court he was overthinking and afraid to make a mistake instead of just letting the game come to him. Once he settled in late in the year he became one of our best passers and, though it's not saying much, was actually was one of our better perimeter defenders too. I know a lot of us, myself included, were frustrated because a supposedly elite shooter couldn't make a damn shot, but I'm just clinging to optimism because he's one of the few pieces we have left that we don't fully know what he is in the NBA yet. I'm just glad we haven't traded him, as his value around the league is incredibly low at the moment and we'd be better off just taking the risk of him turning in to something.

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Its weird because if his seasons were flipped we'd be optimistic. So is that recency bias? Or is the last season more valuable in determining who he is?

 

Both and him being the 5th pick.

 

Think it's also a lack of knowing how his off season last year, the Skiles fiasco, really affected not just his ability to progress skillfully but mentally as well.

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Question related to Mario. Why hasn't his handle improved? He doesn't need one coach to work on that, he doesn't need someone to work with him, it is one thing that is 100% within his control.

 

This is the type of thing that really pisses me off. Shooting percentages aside we should see a deficiency like this improve from year to year a especially from a guard that has the athletic ability to attack and finish. If he doesn't come back with at least that I'm done with him.

 

 

To add onto what Nole said, and I completely agree with him...The handles...When I played, I knew I could pass, shoot, and defend good enough. I also knew I had decent handles and good athleticism.

 

However, I wanted elite handles so I went to my coach and asked what drills can I do in the summer. There's a ton of them. It's just like shooting. Reps and drills to help be more efficient and capable.

 

Main problem with Mario is his tendency to dribble high in iso or traffic. Even when he pulls off a crossover, sometimes the ball will get high enough to where it can be easily swiped or harder to control. The lower the ball stays the easier it is to control and the harder it is to get it taken away.

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Mario is on a similar trajectory career wise as JJ. Bad coaching his rookie year but still showed he had the ability. New coach comes in and he has to learn how to ply a different scheme so his stats drop off. Willing to bed he has a much better offseason now that he has stayed stateside and worked with better coaching and S&C work. Should show marked improvement.

 

Vogel is also under different parameters this season. He had to try and win last year to start so he couldn't let Mario and AG to a lesser extent develop in game. Now he won't have that pressure as it's pretty clear we are starting over. He will be able to have Isaac, Gordon and Mario play together and not lose sleep when we win less than 30 games but the core grows. If Elf shows up too it will be a nice surprise. Add a Center in the 2018 draft and keep going.

 

See Robbins Sentinel article today for the opposite point of view. One opinion from some league insiders is that a big reason Magic young players failed to develop and reach potential is that they were given too much playing time without accountability. Never had to compete to earn time. Oladipo, Vuch, Harris, and Payton are all mentioned as having been hurt by this.

 

Also quotes from Vogel about how they plan to avoid having the same problems stunt Isaacs development. It sounds pretty clear they want him not to be trying to do too much too soon.

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So Mario's not playing in summer league?

 

 

I think after 2 years they can choose to play or not.

 

 

Doesn't concern me. Summer league isn't going to benefit him. He just needs to keep working.

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