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Q5Magic

2016 Off-Season Thread

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everyone I mentioned had lower PER, lower win shares, lower win shares per 48 and most had lower BPM except for the ones I said arguably where they were close in some catagories but not all. Everyone also started the majority of their games. Rondo spefically in 14-15 was worse in both advanced and traditional statistics. I mean he even shot less than 40% on FTs.

 

Isaiah Canaan, as a PG, has never started more games than he's come off the bench in an NBA season (he played a lot of SG last year, which is fair, because he's not a PG). Trey Burke had a higher ws/48 in 14/15, a turnover percentage nearly half of Payton's with a higher usage rate, a considerably higher offensive rating with a similar defensive rating (108 v Payton's 107). Rondo, even if I agree, still doesn't push Payton out of the bottom 5 that year.

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TJ ford had a PER above 20 one season before he succumbed to injury

 

There's also Brandon Knight, Eric Bledsoe, Mike Conley, kyle lowry if you consider his second year his true first year

 

here's the ones who were bad for one season then got better: Tony Parker, George Hill (bad first, average second), Jason Terry, Jrue Holiday

 

Not comprehensive but I have to go home now.

 

I don't think we value the same measurements if you're calling Kyle Lowry's first two years comparable to Payton's, or Conley's second. Bledsoe is encouraging, but his career is such a weird one that I'm not sure what to make of the comparison. It's an interesting thought, though.

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Isaiah Canaan, as a PG, has never started more games than he's come off the bench in an NBA season (he played a lot of SG last year, which is fair, because he's not a PG). Trey Burke had a higher ws/48 in 14/15, a turnover percentage nearly half of Payton's with a higher usage rate, a considerably higher offensive rating with a similar defensive rating (108 v Payton's 107). Rondo, even if I agree, still doesn't push Payton out of the bottom 5 that year.

 

He played 56% of his minutes last year at point according to basketball reference. I'm not using turnover percentage because a players value isn't tied directly to turnovers.

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I don't think we value the same measurements if you're calling Kyle Lowry's first two years comparable to Payton's, or Conley's second. Bledsoe is encouraging, but his career is such a weird one that I'm not sure what to make of the comparison. It's an interesting thought, though.

 

Maybe we don't. Lowry had a similar PER and BPM. a higher WS/48.

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He played 56% of his minutes last year at point according to basketball reference. I'm not using turnover percentage because a players value isn't tied directly to turnovers.

 

That's interesting about Canaan. Smith started 50 games at PG for them, though, so it's hard to argue that Canaan was their starting PG. Most of his minutes at PG likely came as a backup, even if it was more than 50% of his overall minutes. Canaan is a tweener who plays a lot of both PG and SG, but doesn't fit the criteria, because he was not a starter at PG for more than half his games.

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Maybe we don't. Lowry had a similar PER and BPM. a higher WS/48.

 

Yea, I don't put much stock in BPM, and I suspect I put higher stock in ORtg and DRtg. PER is a tricky stat. It's good for weeding out the terrible players, usually, so I like it; but it also often overvalues guys whose play is selfish and doesn't actually translate to winning, like Boogie and T-Wolves Kevin Love.

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I am impressed in your research. But your stats bring no intangibles into consideration. That's OK. I will cheer Payton. U will not resist nitpicking every fault. Have fun.

 

 

What intangibles?

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http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/3/22/8273579/elfrid-payton-rookie-stats-triple-double-orlando-magic

 

This is the Payton Henny and I believe in. Last year, Payton was not allowed to thrive because he was stuck in a system where his coach clearly didn't believe in his skill set. Last year, Payton's 3 pt FG% is 36% up from 24%. He showed that he can improve his shooting touch. It just fascinates me how easily so many fans count him out already.

 

MIP of the year. I'm calling it. You're welcome.

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http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/3/22/8273579/elfrid-payton-rookie-stats-triple-double-orlando-magic

 

This is the Payton Henny and I believe in. Last year, Payton was not allowed to thrive because he was stuck in a system where his coach clearly didn't believe in his skill set. Last year, Payton's 3 pt FG% is 32.6% up from 24%. He showed that he can improve his shooting touch. It just fascinates me how easily so many fans count him out already.

 

MIP of the year. I'm calling it. You're welcome.

 

Fixed for factual accuracy.

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