Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted July 20, 2015 I think the sample size of nba champions is too limited to build a roster based on what worked. Most of those teams are kinda weird and not replicable. Golden state- build around the best shooter of all time Miami- build around 3 of the top 7 players in the nba that are all perimeter guys Dallas-weird lightning in a bottle lineup with a very unusual franchise player San Antonio-build around the best power forward of all time Detroit-build around a bunch of cast offs that just fit together. Chicago-build around the best player of all time. Boston, LA, Houston, first Miami are all typical balanced teams Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catman 380 Report post Posted July 20, 2015 Since we're on the subject of Payton I posed a question to Soul Bro that I'm going to submit to this board. In the history of the NBA has there ever been a team to win an NBA Championship with a PG who shoots as poorly as Elfrid Payton ??? Before anyone answers Rajon Rondo ( like Soul Bro ) I'll post his and Elfrid's career stats for you... http://m.bkref.com/m?p=XXplayersXXrXXrondora01.html http://m.bkref.com/m?p=XXplayersXXpXXpaytoel01.html How does one answer that question? I guess you narrow it down and look at rookie PGs who won an NBA title since that's the only shooting % numbers we have from Payton. So it appears you are assuming Payton will never get better at shooting or neglected to do the logical thing, which is look at Rondo' rookie season and compare it to Elfrids. Either way this is a very poorly thought out post. Also, as displayed above me, there is no exact personnel formula for building a title. As much as people worry about Elfird's shooting, they could also worry about the defense and height of Curry for example if they wanted to nitpick before GSW won their title. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted July 20, 2015 How does one answer that question? I guess you narrow it down and look at rookie PGs who won an NBA title since that's the only shooting % numbers we have from Payton. So it appears you are assuming Payton will never get better at shooting or neglected to do the logical thing, which is look at Rondo' rookie season and compare it to Elfrids. Either way this is a very poorly thought out post. Also, as displayed above me, there is no exact personnel formula for building a title. As much as people worry about Elfird's shooting, they could also worry about the defense and height of Curry for example if they wanted to nitpick before GSW won their title. Plus it's very unlikely that a championship roster will feature a top 7 of Payton-Oladipo-Gordon-Harris-Vucevic-Fournier-Hezonja. This season isn't mission accomplished. It's "we have about the most young players we can test at one time so let's push them into games that matter and see who can succeed and who will fail". If all 7 of these guys reach their potential then Rob might be the best GM of all time and our development structure is second to none. We have 7 at bats right now. We're hoping to get one home run, and at least a couple doubles. If we can go 4/7 with these guys and one becomes a stud we're in fantastic shape. That's a championship core. Someone will be a disappointment. Maybe it's Payton. Maybe it's gordon. Maybe it's Hezonja. If Payton can't improve his shot and it's impacting our success then we take him, another guy, and a pick or two and find a better player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ball junkie 277 Report post Posted July 20, 2015 Plus it's very unlikely that a championship roster will feature a top 7 of Payton-Oladipo-Gordon-Harris-Vucevic-Fournier-Hezonja. This season isn't mission accomplished. It's "we have about the most young players we can test at one time so let's push them into games that matter and see who can succeed and who will fail". If all 7 of these guys reach their potential then Rob might be the best GM of all time and our development structure is second to none. We have 7 at bats right now. We're hoping to get one home run, and at least a couple doubles. If we can go 4/7 with these guys and one becomes a stud we're in fantastic shape. That's a championship core. Someone will be a disappointment. Maybe it's Payton. Maybe it's gordon. Maybe it's Hezonja. If Payton can't improve his shot and it's impacting our success then we take him, another guy, and a pick or two and find a better player. Good post...fair enough...thanks for the research because I forgot to mention that I did not research it and did not know or have an answer...just wanted to know after thinking as far back as I could about all the great PG's that won Championships and knowing how poorly Elfrid shoots. With Elfrid you can also combine his college shooting stats and see there is a definite pattern not easily broken. Again, was looking more for career shooting stats...all of it, free throws, fg percent and may as well throw in 3 point shooting for anyone with time. Has there ever been a PG win a Championship with career shooting percentage equal or worse than Elfrid ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SiMON2g 5 Report post Posted July 20, 2015 Good post...fair enough...thanks for the research because I forgot to mention that I did not research it and did not know or have an answer...just wanted to know after thinking as far back as I could about all the great PG's that won Championships and knowing how poorly Elfrid shoots. With Elfrid you can also combine his college shooting stats and see there is a definite pattern not easily broken. Again, was looking more for career shooting stats...all of it, free throws, fg percent and may as well throw in 3 point shooting for anyone with time. Has there ever been a PG win a Championship with career shooting percentage equal or worse than Elfrid ? Again, how can you compare career shooting percentages of players who have been in the league more than 2 seasons, with Payton's career shooting percentages and make a judgement call. You're not allowing Payton the chance to establish his career like the other player had done to be able to compare percentages. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
magicblue 315 Report post Posted July 20, 2015 Again, how can you compare career shooting percentages of players who have been in the league more than 2 seasons, with Payton's career shooting percentages and make a judgement call. You're not allowing Payton the chance to establish his career like the other player had done to be able to compare percentages. Stop thinking logically. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ball junkie 277 Report post Posted July 20, 2015 Tyler (ND) Can you rank the new coaches being hired this offseason in order of who you think will do best/best fit? Skiles to Magic, Hoiberg to Bulls, Donovan to Thunder, and Gentry to Pelicans? Kevin Pelton Who will do best probably depends more on the roster than the coach, so Donovan is likely to have the best first season even if there's an adjustment to the NBA. Then Hoiberg, Gentry and it will be an accomplishment for Skiles to get the Magic to the postseason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted July 20, 2015 Tyler (ND) Can you rank the new coaches being hired this offseason in order of who you think will do best/best fit? Skiles to Magic, Hoiberg to Bulls, Donovan to Thunder, and Gentry to Pelicans? Kevin Pelton Who will do best probably depends more on the roster than the coach, so Donovan is likely to have the best first season even if there's an adjustment to the NBA. Then Hoiberg, Gentry and it will be an accomplishment for Skiles to get the Magic to the postseason. He just ordered the team by record lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catman 380 Report post Posted July 20, 2015 I kept wondering who this guy was and why his articles and answers were so lazy and bad, so I looked at his linkedin. His only real connection to pro basketball was doing web content editing for the Seattle Storm. It's funny that this guy is such a pillar of information to BJ that he has to devote an entire thread to him There can only be so many Zach Lowes. Pelton is like a poor man's national version of Brian Schmitz. Speaking of Zach Lowe, if any writer deserved his own thread, it would be him. He is a great writer who actually puts thought and detail into his work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ball junkie 277 Report post Posted July 20, 2015 Speaking of Zach Lowe, Yes, speaking of...I haven't been able to find 1 thing he has had to say about the Magic off-season...I mean "0"...Anybody that has please enlighten me. I know when the Magic were negotiating with Harris he tweeted he liked Harris but to my knowledge that's been it. And I agree about his writing skills...read him a lot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catman 380 Report post Posted July 20, 2015 Yes, speaking of...I haven't been able to find 1 thing he has had to say about the Magic off-season...I mean "0"...Anybody that has please enlighten me. I know when the Magic were negotiating with Harris he tweeted he liked Harris but to my knowledge that's been it. And I agree about his writing skills...read him a lot. Yeah,you have to listen to his podcast, its good. Its real good actually. I think he is probably taking time off for a while. He is a major Hezonja fan. Big time. Loves to watch and analyze the Magic. So I expect some nice preseason stuff about us in a few months Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
God Hates Otis Smith 153 Report post Posted July 20, 2015 Since we're on the subject of Payton I posed a question to Soul Bro that I'm going to submit to this board. In the history of the NBA has there ever been a team to win an NBA Championship with a PG who shoots as poorly as Elfrid Payton ??? Before anyone answers Rajon Rondo ( like Soul Bro ) I'll post his and Elfrid's career stats for you... http://m.bkref.com/m?p=XXplayersXXrXXrondora01.html http://m.bkref.com/m?p=XXplayersXXpXXpaytoel01.html Elfrid has one *****ing season under his belt, get a grip. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
