Official 2015 Offseason Thread

[Murphy13]

No. You take pre-injury Jameer every time over Alston. Suggesting Jameer only played to score and not to win is a bogus statement, too. Alston tried and failed to score quite a bit. He couldn't hit a contested layup to aave his life, though.

 

Pre-injury Jameer is an unrealistic litmus, sample size was relatively small and he wouldn't maintain that production injury or not anyway. Move the goal posts enough and Marcin Gortat would seem to be the better choice at Center over Dwight...which ironically surfaced on more than one occasion here. The reality is that Jameer's primary asset was his scoring, which was irregular at best, and his leadership presence. The latter trait is what would make the FEW people outside of Orlando that would choose Jameer over Rafer actually choose Jameer-not his shooting...which was assuredly replaceable. I love what Jameer did with us, but by the time the '09 playoffs came, Rafer was an entirely better player than Jameer. This was evident not only in the W-L column and box scores, but in how our team carried themselves. Night and day difference between the vibe of our team in the CLE series and LAL series, no one can argue logically against that. Those that have followed my reasoning the past 9 years know I have been hard on pg's all along, I feel those previously mentioned things are the onus of the pg. If you need to score as a pg, go score points. Rafer did when it mattered as the general during the CLE series. Go get the needed backcourt rebound, Rafer would be there. Get a steal, block, get into someones face,etc...that's not what Jameer does-it's just not his game. Jameer's offensive output weighs heavy in many peoples' minds, understandably so when compounded with slight homerism. Just don't let it cloud what the role of a pg should be-they are glue that fills the cracks in a team. Jameer largely struggled with that. Take an objective perspective on the matter and you can't deny this...it's the exact thing that excites us about Payton (thankfully with a higher ceiling). I loved what Jameer brought to the team, it just wasn't what we needed to win a championship...at least from the lead position. Short story long, Im OK with you disagreeing on the matter. I never intimated that Jameer was only interested in scoring and not winning, I intimated that he tried to be the point guard but was mostly an inconsistent scoring guard with occasional Jameer to Dwight-laden assist showings. In the interest of clarifying my position to those with short memories, I do not believe the Rafer-Jameer dynamic was the driving force behind our faltered '09 campaign. That was due mostly to the other guard position and to a lesser extent our second line front court D. This conversation was merely a player discussion at a particular time that coincided with our finals run.

[God Hates Otis Smith]

only thing i blame stan for is playing jameer as much as he did, not the fact he played him. people use alot of hindsight when it comes to that decision

[Fultz4thewin]

He certainly was having a career year that year. I don't mean to take anything away from Jameer as I liked him and still appreciate how he carries himself. He was a more reliable scorer than Rafer and contributed to a good team dynamic, that's for sure. Take each in their prime and Rafer was the superior point though, just more well-rounded; he didn't play to score, he played to win on both ends (and make mix tapes), which helps overlook his cantankerous perception when comparing to Jameer. Jameer is no doubt the kinder Magician though!

 

 

Wow. This is probably the most ridiculous statement you've ever made.

[Fultz4thewin]

Pre-injury Jameer is an unrealistic litmus, sample size was relatively small and he wouldn't maintain that production injury or not anyway. Move the goal posts enough and Marcin Gortat would seem to be the better choice at Center over Dwight...which ironically surfaced on more than one occasion here. The reality is that Jameer's primary asset was his scoring, which was irregular at best, and his leadership presence. The latter trait is what would make the FEW people outside of Orlando that would choose Jameer over Rafer actually choose Jameer-not his shooting...which was assuredly replaceable. I love what Jameer did with us, but by the time the '09 playoffs came, Rafer was an entirely better player than Jameer. This was evident not only in the W-L column and box scores, but in how our team carried themselves. Night and day difference between the vibe of our team in the CLE series and LAL series, no one can argue logically against that. Those that have followed my reasoning the past 9 years know I have been hard on pg's all along, I feel those previously mentioned things are the onus of the pg. If you need to score as a pg, go score points. Rafer did when it mattered as the general during the CLE series. Go get the needed backcourt rebound, Rafer would be there. Get a steal, block, get into someones face,etc...that's not what Jameer does-it's just not his game. Jameer's offensive output weighs heavy in many peoples' minds, understandably so when compounded with slight homerism. Just don't let it cloud what the role of a pg should be-they are glue that fills the cracks in a team. Jameer largely struggled with that. Take an objective perspective on the matter and you can't deny this...it's the exact thing that excites us about Payton (thankfully with a higher ceiling). I loved what Jameer brought to the team, it just wasn't what we needed to win a championship...at least from the lead position. Short story long, Im OK with you disagreeing on the matter. I never intimated that Jameer was only interested in scoring and not winning, I intimated that he tried to be the point guard but was mostly an inconsistent scoring guard with occasional Jameer to Dwight-laden assist showings. In the interest of clarifying my position to those with short memories, I do not believe the Rafer-Jameer dynamic was the driving force behind our faltered '09 campaign. That was due mostly to the other guard position and to a lesser extent our second line front court D. This conversation was merely a player discussion at a particular time that coincided with our finals run.

 

You want to explain how his 12 ppg, 4 apg and 38% shooting makes him better at anything than jameer?

 

People overrate rafer. He was a fringe nba player that played on 6 teams in 11 years. His toughness kept him around.

 

We liked him because his play was juxtaposed against Anthony Johnson short but horrible tenure as starting point guard. We liked him because he was cool. He had a cool nickname. He was a major part of the and 1 mixtape tour which was cool. He smacked Eddie house which was cool.

 

But he was a below average point guard.

[NittanyBuc]

Slapping Eddie House was my favorite Rafer Alston contribution that year

[Franchero MVP]

[Catman]

You part of the Orlando Paparazzi scene or something? I worked in the same building as MJ and lived in the same neighborhood as Dell Curry for 4 years and never saw either of them in person. I know Charlotte is bigger than Orlando but you sure seem to beat the odds on chance encounters. Bo was everywhere when I still lived in Orlando, if he's the same way, then that might not be the most unique encounter, but still...

 

Well all the players live near me in the downtown area. So its real easy to run into them at a publix (since there only is one grocery store and everyone uses it) or a night club.

 

I should add that I saw Nick Anderson too yesterday. He was out with Bo.

 

Rob was just a random lunch encounter. Downtown Orlando is pretty small.

[jec]

When I said "pre-injury" I meant before his major shoulder injury and subsequent half season rehabilitation. I was including his previous contributions to the team. So your point about sample size is invalid, nor could you say either way whether Jameer would have continued to play as well as he had been that particular season. I appreciate what Alston way able to do for us during that playoff run but I feel like you're forgetting how solid Jameer was for us.

[Catalina Maria]

Well all the players live near me in the downtown area. So its real easy to run into them at a publix (since there only is one grocery store and everyone uses it) or a night club.

 

I should add that I saw Nick Anderson too yesterday. He was out with Bo.

 

Rob was just a random lunch encounter. Downtown Orlando is pretty small.

 

Catman, is it true that you are really Terry Catledge, past Orlando Magic player? C'mon. Come clean with us.

[bhnole]

Catman, is it true that you are really Terry Catledge, past Orlando Magic player? C'mon. Come clean with us.

 

If he is Terry Catledge you should expect a triple pump fake answer.

[Catman]

Catman, is it true that you are really Terry Catledge, past Orlando Magic player? C'mon. Come clean with us.

 

Is it true that you are an aspiring female model?

[Fultz4thewin]

so no Fournier and no gordon Saturday is really good for Hezonja and his minutes.