Official 2015 Offseason Thread

[Emory889 353]

And it's easy to see why we didn't match up well with the Celtics. There are 3 reasons:

 

3) Carter absolutely sucked at chasing Allen around screens.

2) Pierce always torched us.

1) This is the biggest one, Dwight could never consistently score on Perkins one on one.

 

That series had me all kind of worried before it started. I never liked our chances.

[A Better DJ & Photographer 455]

And it's easy to see why we didn't match up well with the Celtics. There are 3 reasons:

 

3) Carter absolutely sucked at chasing Allen around screens.

2) Pierce always torched us.

1) This is the biggest one, Dwight could never consistently score on Perkins one on one.

 

That series had me all kind of worried before it started. I never liked our chances.

Perkins was able to cash in for a long time after that performance!

[OrlandoFeds 34]

And it's easy to see why we didn't match up well with the Celtics. There are 3 reasons:

 

3) Carter absolutely sucked at chasing Allen around screens.

2) Pierce always torched us.

1) This is the biggest one, Dwight could never consistently score on Perkins one on one.

 

That series had me all kind of worried before it started. I never liked our chances.

 

I was the same. The year earlier Pierce struggled but it was through no fault of his own as we doubled him literally every time he got the ball, I remember the double was coming as he was bringing the ball up the court.

 

With Garnett in the line up I knew we weren't able to focus that much attention on him and we had only barely won the year before. Pietrus worried me too because he had a freak of a series in 2009 which I didn't think he'd be able to reproduce.

 

I was surprised to hear that Lowe had us pegged as favourites.

[JJZFL 618]

What I like about the "small" lineup of Elfrid. Oladipo, Harris, Gordon and Vuc is that it is extremely fast. It may be the fastest in the league to be quite honest. And that is something we did not use to our advantage enough. Some of that was just plain inexperience (plus injury), but when people say that they question the roster due to the record, I really think we have never seen this roster used properly.

 

I believe you will see this lineup early in the rotation more and more while the season progresses - Elfrid/Victor/Hezonja/Harris/Gordon. I truly believe that lineup will be devastating because Aaron Gordon can guard 5s and it puts our 5 most athletic players on the floor together. Also, Vuc will need to rest anyway due to the uptempo pace.

 

Once that lineup gels it has the potential to do serious damage to other teams.

 

I don't agree with this. I think with that lineup we get torched on the boards, and have grossly inadequate interior defense. We saw how that worked out last season.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I don't agree with this. I think with that lineup we get torched on the boards, and have grossly inadequate interior defense. We saw how that worked out last season.

 

How many teams can torch us on the boards? Isn't it a better strategy to maximize our strengths and live with our weaknesses rather than play a traditional lineup that has a lower ceiling?

[Catman 380]

I don't agree with this. I think with that lineup we get torched on the boards, and have grossly inadequate interior defense. We saw how that worked out last season.

 

You don't agree? Wow that's stunning.

 

I agree with Payton. Why would we play a traditional lineup when that is not how the strength of the team is built? I just explained how we could actually do pretty well on the boards since guys like Payton can still pull down rebounds off switches that most PGs can't get from a bigger player.

 

Remember, rebounding numbers also have to do with coaching strategy. The coach tells a team to either crash when a shot goes up or run down the court. You can't do both.

 

Focusing on interior defense is exactly the opposite of the point I was making. Small lineups don't do this. Traditional ones do.

[Miller4Prez66 545]

Lowe/SVG podcast was great. Maxed Rashard Lewis would be a completely normal deal in today's NBA.

 

Also while Vince choked perhaps the hardest in the 2010 ECF, he was in fact terrible the entire playoffs. I think he had maybe 1 or 2 good performances out of the entire run. In retrospect it was difficult to imagine him improving things against a tougher opponent like Boston.

 

He, and everyone else was pretty good in that 2nd round series against the Hawks, but that was the one series where we probably didn't need Carter to play well. The Celtics were a poor matchup for us and it just stunk because that 2010 Magic team was better than 2009 one by far IMO. If we had gotten the Cavs in the ECF again I think we would've won. I'm not sure how we would've fared against the Lakers, but it would've been better than the disappointing performance in the 2009 Finals.

 

But in the end, despite having no rings to show for those years they were still a blast and a lot of my favorite memories in sports came from those Magic teams from around 2008-2011.

[jec 427]

I still remember that Raptors series in 08 like it was yesterday. That season as a whole was one of the last ones i had time to watch every game. Really was a great year to be a Magic fan. We all knew it was a start of something special. Dwight immediately looked like a much better player. Rashard was an assassin from the start. And Hedo had a breakout year as well. SIGH.

[Miller4Prez66 545]

I still remember that Raptors series in 08 like it was yesterday. That season as a whole was one of the last ones i had time to watch every game. Really was a great year to be a Magic fan. We all knew it was a start of something special. Dwight immediately looked like a much better player. Rashard was an assassin from the start. And Hedo had a breakout year as well. SIGH.

 

I went to Game 1 of that series against the Raptors, it was the best environment I've seen at a sporting event. Lots of fun. It's too bad we got creamed by the Pistons in the 2nd round, they always had our number back then when they had Rasheed, Rip, Billups, Prince, etc.

[Murphy13 185]

You don't agree? Wow that's stunning.

 

I agree with Payton. Why would we play a traditional lineup when that is not how the strength of the team is built? I just explained how we could actually do pretty well on the boards since guys like Payton can still pull down rebounds off switches that most PGs can't get from a bigger player.

 

Remember, rebounding numbers also have to do with coaching strategy. The coach tells a team to either crash when a shot goes up or run down the court. You can't do both.

 

Focusing on interior defense is exactly the opposite of the point I was making. Small lineups don't do this. Traditional ones do.

 

I agree with the concept of playing to our strengths, I find it hard to argue against that mindset. I also agree that we are/will be a better rebounding team with Payton in, though I feel like we are/will be a better team at everything with Payton in.

 

I'm not sure what JJZFL was getting at, but I did not see a relative strength in our small ball lineups last year nor has our personnel changed MUCH...which may be where he was going with his comment (low confidence in change). Now, this year is a new year, and we are expecting big improvements across the board. It SHOULD be our strength, but mainly because we lack the talent to utilize a 'traditional' lineup. Traditional lineups are still the standard configuration teams build for. This was evident by our pursuit of Millsap-the definition of a 'true 4'...someone that can beast down low but also get down the floor. In a traditional lineup, especially with players with the particular ability of Payton (and Millsap), coupled with Nik and sizable wings, the best opportunity to control the paint on both ends AND master the transition is presented. Small ball essentially limits you in that regard; though as GSW showed, it can benefit you depending on matchup and other factors such as rest, travel, prep, etc.

 

I have made it known that I'm not sold on small-ball in its entirety, though I see the benefits in situational cases...much like 1 in-4 out setup we employed with prime Dwight. I understand why some think there is a trend to small ball, but the sample size in favor is small at best...and just an above average-skilled traditional lineup that's well coached will neutralize a sole-small ball approach in a heartbeat. It very nearly happened this year, and the GSW small-ball model was perhaps the most well employed/maximized/executed model in the history of the game. If GSW met Memphis in the first or second round instead of conference finals, I am confident Memphis wins that series. Anyway, I am a fan of employing the small ball regime for stretches...but if it is our primary mode of attack, then I fear that while we will improve record-wise as a whole we will be selling ourselves short by sacrificing true contention in exchange for more wins. I fear small-ball is the champion of mediocrity.

[Catman 380]

I agree with the concept of playing to our strengths, I find it hard to argue against that mindset. I also agree that we are/will be a better rebounding team with Payton in, though I feel like we are/will be a better team at everything with Payton in.

 

I'm not sure what JJZFL was getting at, but I did not see a relative strength in our small ball lineups last year nor has our personnel changed MUCH...which may be where he was going with his comment (low confidence in change). Now, this year is a new year, and we are expecting big improvements across the board. It SHOULD be our strength, but mainly because we lack the talent to utilize a 'traditional' lineup. Traditional lineups are still the standard configuration teams build for. This was evident by our pursuit of Millsap-the definition of a 'true 4'...someone that can beast down low but also get down the floor. In a traditional lineup, especially with players with the particular ability of Payton (and Millsap), coupled with Nik and sizable wings, the best opportunity to control the paint on both ends AND master the transition is presented. Small ball essentially limits you in that regard; though as GSW showed, it can benefit you depending on matchup and other factors such as rest, travel, prep, etc.

 

I have made it known that I'm not sold on small-ball in its entirety, though I see the benefits in situational cases...much like 1 in-4 out setup we employed with prime Dwight. I understand why some think there is a trend to small ball, but the sample size in favor is small at best...and just an above average-skilled traditional lineup that's well coached will neutralize a sole-small ball approach in a heartbeat. It very nearly happened this year, and the GSW small-ball model was perhaps the most well employed/maximized/executed model in the history of the game. If GSW met Memphis in the first or second round instead of conference finals, I am confident Memphis wins that series. Anyway, I am a fan of employing the small ball regime for stretches...but if it is our primary mode of attack, then I fear that while we will improve record-wise as a whole we will be selling ourselves short by sacrificing true contention in exchange for more wins. I fear small-ball is the champion of mediocrity.

 

Well the thing about Millsap is that he doesn't play in a traditional lineup or scheme. He can stretch the floor like a stretch 4 now which is what makes him so valuable. ATL doesnt have a C, they have 2 PFs so in many ways they still play like a small team

 

Remember - Millsap is only 6'8. He is no bigger than T12 or AG.

 

The reason the Magic went after Millsapp was not to be traditional, but to add an experienced veteran star to the roster since our team is so young.

 

The Magics main starting lineup with Vuc in it will actually be bigger than ATLs.

[Murphy13 185]

Well the thing about Millsap is that he doesn't play in a traditional lineup or scheme. He can stretch the floor like a stretch 4 now which is what makes him so valuable. ATL doesnt have a C, they have 2 PFs so in many ways they still play like a small team

 

Remember - Millsap is only 6'8. He is no bigger than T12 or AG.

 

The reason the Magic went after Millsapp was not to be traditional, but to add an experienced veteran star to the roster since our team is so young.

 

The Magics main starting lineup with Vuc in it will actually be bigger than ATLs.

 

Millsap does provide those intangibles you speak of, definitely. While I agree that ATL employs two PF-sized people I contend that Horford has always played like a center. Millsap is a darn good player regardless of his title, but he meets the definition of a true 4 though. He's a threat to hit a three, but teams aren't going to change their game plan to counter his ability to shoot from that far out. His value is in his ability to effectively man the front court defensively with Horford while not sacrificing offensive production and taking care to cover the midrange-allowing his wing help be more aggressive themselves. He helps make others around him better, in other words. While all stretch 4's would love to be able to do that, how often have those skills been attributed to even the best stretch fours? Either way, ATL's approach further exemplifies my concerns regarding small ball vs traditional ball. In the right matchup/sequence of seeding, they would have been in the finals. Their story is a far more likely outcome for the future of small ball, except they lost to a traditionally-built team that lacked even an average front court.

 

As an aside regarding the size of our players, Harris is actually more like 6'6.5" to 6'7"(at best) from what I've seen in person. Hard to put a finger on AG as he might be growing still but he's clearly taller than T12 by a solid 1.5"-2", for example. I would agree that AG could take a good look at Millsap's game with regard to size and style for inspiration if that's where this was going. I haven't seen them together yet but I am willing to bet Hedonism is 1"-2" taller than Harris as well. Millsap might be the same height or a little taller than Harris, but has much more length as well as broader shoulders...and less doughy.