Official 2015 Offseason Thread

[Catman 380]

The cap is going to continue increase in 2+ years. That's what your not grasping. Henny resigned Harris in perfect harmony to what the cap will do in the next 4 years while giving us ample room to resign those who will be our core.

 

Your last paragraph is your blinded frustration from seeing things rationally. SA built their team the same way, through the draft. Manu, Parker, TD, Leonard, all drafted.

 

I agree. We are not the Spurs, but the Spurs built the same way. They made fantastic draft picks and got some luck too. Rob worked for the Spurs, learned their culture and concepts and brought it over here. There is no guarantee it will work for any team, but it is the proven way to build a dynasty in a small market.

 

I believe Rob has made great draft picks and trades for young assets (Harris, Fournier). We simply do not know how good these guys will be yet, so it only makes sense to keep and develop them or cut bait if a player is getting buried on the bench (Harkless).The Spurs not only drafted great players, they kept them together and built continuity. That is very important in the NBA, and that is what Rob is doing.

 

I wouldn't say "perfect harmony". Perfect harmony would be Vuchs' contract. I like the way Harris's numbers are divided up each year, but regardless it was still an overpay. Which for the record, I'm okay with. But let's not all be so biased to act like we got a great deal with Harris. Harris won that signing, not Rob. Rob ponied up what he had to in order to keep Harris, if he was comfortable going that high he could have done so last summer. He did what he had to.

 

*ambush ensues*

 

I don't think there is anything controversial or crazy here besides your definition of overpay, which has already been addressed.

 

I'll respect the opinion of anyone who suggests that tobias isn't a long term piece for this team. There is enough history/analytics that can support him being a mediocre player as there are being a great player. I'm not sold on him either (though I do support betting on youth).

 

But to act like signing him is going to prevent us from doing anything in the future is asinine. Next offseason we have 9 players committed and ~29 million in cap space. Enough to sign an elite player if we wish. The following season, even after resigning Fournier, we should have something like 35 million in cap space (less for potential free agent signings the previous year).

 

It's really going to have no impact.

 

I agree. I am not sold on Harris yet either. But I was sold on signing and keeping him for the above reasons plus the fact that I like a lot of things about his numbers, things I have already posted a hundred times.

 

The reality is that Rob has masterfully handled the cap. We will not handicap the team with bad contracts.

 

This is, I think, the cornerstone of why your arguments are ridiculous: By the time the CAP stops going up dramatically from year to year, Harris will be a free agent, and he'll either have proven he's worth re-signing, or he won't. Either way, it won't hamstring us going forward. And we know the CAP will keep rising, because the CAP number is directly tied to revenue, and we can easily project what's happening with the revenue thanks to contracts for the future where ink is already put to paper.

 

 

There's simply no scenario where his contract ends up being an albatross to this team, because the earliest we could possibly be struggling for CAP room is the last year of his contract, and that's based on the assumption that Oladipo, Payton and Gordon all demand huge amounts of money AND that Harris hasn't improved at all in that time frame. And in that case, we're simply trading away a pretty good player on a 16m expiring or whatever it is three years from now, (I remember hearing his contract had a funky breakdown) which will be the same year Channing Frye's contract clears. That's like, the opposite of a difficult problem to have.

 

Vuc needs a new contract? Fine, don't re-sign Harris. Hezonja needs a huge new contract. Fine, don't re-sign Harris.

 

Yes. This is why I was not one bit surprised that the Magic matched Harris's contract. I would have been much more surprised if they didn't to be quite honest.

[ball junkie 277]

Murphy, here's a link that made it easier to understand for what I think those guys are trying to tell you...Looks as if Rob has everything set up nicely to resign all of our players...Big question still remains of if you want to keep this core together:

 

http://orlandomagicdaily.com/2015/07/18/tobias-harris-strange-contract/

 

Also, there seems to be some mis-communication going on with Mario, his Euro team and the Magic...details below:

 

http://orlandomagicdaily.com/2015/07/18/croatian-coach-mario-hezonja-will-play-eurobasket/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[The Neighborhood Bully 266]

Coming into his rookie season, one of the biggest question marks regarding Gordon’s game was his jump shot. When it comes to other areas of the game, he’s versatile enough to play the small or power forward position, but his limited shooting ability has tended to keep him based more around the rim on offense.

 

That may no longer be the case if his summer performances are to be taken seriously.

 

And it’s not even the improvements he’s made on his catch-and-shoot looks that have been the most impressive. More often than not, Gordon was creating his own shot off the dribble, something that will serve him well if he’s going to get more playing time on the perimeter.

 

For starters, his shot itself looks much cleaner. There’s no longer any pause in his shooting motion when bringing his arm up and following through on his release. Everything flows in one motion, which comes a lot from the confidence he has built taking those shots.

 

It’s clear he’s put in the work and reps to be able to knock down pull-up shots with ease, but what he’s done extending his shot off the dribble to outside the three-point line is remarkable.

 

http://hoopshabit.co...20the%20Network

[HeHateMe 697]

I'm not even debating it being a crippling contract or anything of the sort. Just saying it wasn't a home-run signing by us like others have stated.

 

Just like Kanter wasn't a home run signing by OKC

Just like Dragic wasn't a home run signing for Miami

Just like Carroll wasn't a home run signing for Toronto

Just like Knight wasn't a home run signing for Phoenix

Just like Lopez wasn't a home run signing for Knicks

 

It's what role players make now. So I don't see it as being a bad contract or a great one. It's just the norm. It wasn't a perfect deal. It was a normal deal. Again, Vuch is a perfect/great deal. Harris's is just a normal. Anyone that tries to make it seem like more than that falls into the "In Henny I trust" category.

[Jason Funderburker 111]

Did anyone evr sign KJ McDaniels?

[Miller4Prez66 545]

Did anyone evr sign KJ McDaniels?

 

He signed a 3 year, 10 million dollar deal with Houston.

[Trey Time 186]

I was talking to gporter on Facebook (he used to post here but he doesn't nearly as much). I was telling him that the role that everyone here on the forums think that Fournier will fill, I actually think that guy will be Dipo.

 

Basically, the same way that Mo was sent away because too many guys that do the same thing as you are better than you, I think the same thing will happen to Evan.

 

If AG is our PF of the future, and Tobes is our SF of the future, and Mario is our SG of the future, that would mean that Dipo comes off the bench.

 

Not only is it indisputable that Dipo is better than Evan (don't even try, I will roast you), but Dipo could be both the backup PG and backup SG. He would still get "his minutes" coming off the bench.

 

Does anyone else see this? Because apparently I'm the first guy to bring it up. Because long term, it's pretty evident that Evan doesn't have a place on this team. And that isn't a knock on him.

[CTMagicUK 1,476]

I was talking to gporter on Facebook (he used to post here but he doesn't nearly as much). I was telling him that the role that everyone here on the forums think that Fournier will fill, I actually think that guy will be Dipo.

 

Basically, the same way that Mo was sent away because too many guys that do the same thing as you are better than you, I think the same thing will happen to Evan.

 

If AG is our PF of the future, and Tobes is our SF of the future, and Mario is our SG of the future, that would mean that Dipo comes off the bench.

 

Not only is it indisputable that Dipo is better than Evan (don't even try, I will roast you), but Dipo could be both the backup PG and backup SG. He would still get "his minutes" coming off the bench.

 

Does anyone else see this? Because apparently I'm the first guy to bring it up. Because long term, it's pretty evident that Evan doesn't have a place on this team. And that isn't a knock on him.

 

Catman has brought up Dipo as a 6th Man multiple times but I find it hard to come to that conclusion yet. Considering we haven't seen Hezonja play in an nba game yet. If Hezonja is the real deal Dipo off the bench could happen, or we could trade Tobias and start Hezonja at the 3, or bring Tobias off the bench as a combo forward, or any number of other things could happen. In terms of Evan I can see a situation where we trade him at the deadline but at this point we need all the talent we can get so giving him a new contract next summer is as likely as any other scenario, the way the cap is projecting I can envision a scenario where Fournier gets 4 years 38-40 million which would be about JJ Redick money under the new cap if my guestimates are correct. We might be willing to give him that all things considered.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I was talking to gporter on Facebook (he used to post here but he doesn't nearly as much). I was telling him that the role that everyone here on the forums think that Fournier will fill, I actually think that guy will be Dipo.

 

Basically, the same way that Mo was sent away because too many guys that do the same thing as you are better than you, I think the same thing will happen to Evan.

 

If AG is our PF of the future, and Tobes is our SF of the future, and Mario is our SG of the future, that would mean that Dipo comes off the bench.

 

Not only is it indisputable that Dipo is better than Evan (don't even try, I will roast you), but Dipo could be both the backup PG and backup SG. He would still get "his minutes" coming off the bench.

 

Does anyone else see this? Because apparently I'm the first guy to bring it up. Because long term, it's pretty evident that Evan doesn't have a place on this team. And that isn't a knock on him.

 

The general opinion is that we'll have tobias/Gordon as the 3/4 and then move somebody once we figure out what we have.

 

 

If gordon ends up being an all star and Hezonja is as advertised then we could trade tobias or Oladipo or, like you said, make Oladipo the sixth man or tobias the sixth man.

 

 

We could build around the following lineups

 

Payton-Oladipo-Hezonja-Harris-Vucevic

 

Payton-Oladipo-Hezonja-Gordon-Vucevic

 

Payton-Oladipo-Gordon-Harris-Vucevic

 

Payton-Hezonja-Gordon-Harris-Vucevic

 

Oladipo-Hezonja-Gordon-Harris-Vucevic

 

Some combination of the above with a couple guys traded for the next all NBA guy to demand a trade. Maybe we replace Vucevic with a cousins type guy later on. Maybe we replace Payton with John wall. Maybe we replace Harris with Anthony Davis. We don't know who will be available.

 

Right now we've got Payton, Oladipo, Harris, Gordon, Vucevic, Fournier, and Hezonja. If Oladipo can't learn how to shoot, and that becomes a problem, we have two other shooting guards who can. If gordon can't play sf, we have Harris, Hezonja, and Fournier who can. If Hezonja is more bellineli than Thompson then he can just stay as a bench guy. If Harris doesn't improve and others do, he's a bench guy or moved.

 

We have lots of contingency plans. That's good.

[God Hates Otis Smith 153]

I'm not even debating it being a crippling contract or anything of the sort. Just saying it wasn't a home-run signing by us like others have stated.

 

Just like Kanter wasn't a home run signing by OKC

Just like Dragic wasn't a home run signing for Miami

Just like Carroll wasn't a home run signing for Toronto

Just like Knight wasn't a home run signing for Phoenix

Just like Lopez wasn't a home run signing for Knicks

 

It's what role players make now. So I don't see it as being a bad contract or a great one. It's just the norm. It wasn't a perfect deal. It was a normal deal. Again, Vuch is a perfect/great deal. Harris's is just a normal. Anyone that tries to make it seem like more than that falls into the "In Henny I trust" category.

i'd rather have tobes on his deal than any of those guys on their's

[Mauro Pedrosa 1,031]

He signed a 3 year, 10 million dollar deal with Houston.

Kinda sad that we're stacked at SF and can't sign him

[Mauro Pedrosa 1,031]

I was talking to gporter on Facebook (he used to post here but he doesn't nearly as much). I was telling him that the role that everyone here on the forums think that Fournier will fill, I actually think that guy will be Dipo.

 

Basically, the same way that Mo was sent away because too many guys that do the same thing as you are better than you, I think the same thing will happen to Evan.

 

If AG is our PF of the future, and Tobes is our SF of the future, and Mario is our SG of the future, that would mean that Dipo comes off the bench.

 

Not only is it indisputable that Dipo is better than Evan (don't even try, I will roast you), but Dipo could be both the backup PG and backup SG. He would still get "his minutes" coming off the bench.

 

Does anyone else see this? Because apparently I'm the first guy to bring it up. Because long term, it's pretty evident that Evan doesn't have a place on this team. And that isn't a knock on him.

Wouldn't be surprised if that happened. Evan is very solid but he's not that athletic and is a low key guy. He could be forgotten