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2014 Free Agency Watch Thread

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bismack biyombo is not even a free agent or restricted free agent next offseason. So why did you even bring this up?

 

I just said I liked the guy and thought he'd be an asset. I can start a new thread for guys we should target in a trade if you'd like. Regardless, it's interesting to me that the reason you don't like Biyombo is that we'll have to pay him too much once his rookie contract is up, in like what 2-3 years? You wouldn't think the demand would be all that high on a guy that has so little going for him, as you so clearly attempted to point out three posts ago.

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I really don't know who will be available (nor is it relevant). I'd rather have unknown late pick than Bismack Biyombo who you'll have to probably pay 6x as much in a couple seasons while providing similar production. Hell andrew nicholson was a late pick and I'd take him over Biyombo in heartbeat, and that is no praise for Nicholson. Not to mention paying Biyombo means we can't keep other talent like Harkless or Vuc or Harris. And if we don't extend him, well the hell did we trade him for?

 

The rest of your post really doesn't make sense. Yes you need someone who can protect the rim. Someone like DPOY Tyson Chandler. Is Biyombo at that level? No. Will he ever be at that level to make a substantial difference? probably not. So why are we discussing this again?

 

 

What about my post doesn't make sense? Did you mean you disagree with it? If that's the case, that's fine...but that's a different issue, my post is perfectly clear. Obviously Biyombo isn't at the level of DPOY, neither was Ben Wallace at 21 or Tyson Chandler since you brought him up. It's so great that we're all geeked to see how Vuc, Harkless, Tobias, and Dipo develop, yet according to your crystal ball, Biyombo simply is what he is and probably will not be a game changer defensively (except in that contract year presumably). Dude turned 21 three months ago, no one knows what his ceiling is yet...the two of us included.

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What about my post doesn't make sense? Did you mean you disagree with it? If that's the case, that's fine...but that's a different issue, my post is perfectly clear. Obviously Biyombo isn't at the level of DPOY, neither was Ben Wallace at 21 or Tyson Chandler since you brought him up. It's so great that we're all geeked to see how Vuc, Harkless, Tobias, and Dipo develop, yet according to your crystal ball, Biyombo simply is what he is and probably will not be a game changer defensively (except in that contract year presumably). Dude turned 21 three months ago, no one knows what his ceiling is yet...the two of us included.

 

we get excited over vuc and hark and tobias because in the couple years they've been playing, they've at least showed flashes of being something special. You can't say the same for Biyombo. If you can you're just trying too hard.

 

Nobody knew ben wallace or chandler would be good, ok fine. Basically what you're suggesting is throw away assets in hopes of him having a similar impact. Thank god we don't have Otis anymore, he'd probably take you up on that.

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I just said I liked the guy and thought he'd be an asset. I can start a new thread for guys we should target in a trade if you'd like. Regardless, it's interesting to me that the reason you don't like Biyombo is that we'll have to pay him too much once his rookie contract is up, in like what 2-3 years? You wouldn't think the demand would be all that high on a guy that has so little going for him, as you so clearly attempted to point out three posts ago.

 

Vuc and Harris are due for extensions this offseason. Then Harkless, then Oladipo. Where/how does Biyombo fit in that? His number won't go up until 2 years, but you can't just recklessly throw money on a player like that. I like our guys much more than anything Biyombo brings.

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Bismack Biyombo, per36 last year: 6.4pts, 9.6rebs, 0.6asts, 0.5 steals, 2.4blks, 1.4 TOs, .451/.000/.521 for an eFG% of .451 and a TS% of .472. Just a so-so defender(and that's being generous).

 

Kyle O'Quinn, per36 last year: 13.1pts, 9.7rebs, 2.9asts, 0.6 steals, 1.5blks, 2.1 TOs, .513/.000/.667 for an eFG% of .513 and a TS% of .535. Below average as a defender. Biyombo has an advantage there, but it's not particularly big. Though O'Quinn grades out better on Drtg, both in terms of individually and as compared to their respective teams' Drtgs.

 

They also had the same number of Win Shares last season, despite the fact that Biyombo played 4x as many minutes as O'Quinn did.

 

Would you give up a 1st round pick for Kyle O'Quinn, magicblue? Because O'Quinn has been better than Biyombo so far in their careers.

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Bismack Biyombo, per36 last year: 6.4pts, 9.6rebs, 0.6asts, 0.5 steals, 1.8blks, 1.4 TOs, .451/.000/.521 for an eFG% of .451 and a TS% of .472. Just a so-so defender(and that's being generous).

 

Kyle O'Quinn, per36 last year: 13.1pts, 9.7rebs, 2.9asts, 0.6 steals, 1.5blks, 2.1 TOs, .513/.000/.667 for an eFG% of .513 and a TS% of .535. Below average as a defender. Biyombo has an advantage there, but it's not particularly big. Though O'Quinn grades out better on Drtg, both in terms of individually and as compared to their respective teams' Drtgs.

 

They also had the same number of Win Shares last season, despite the fact that Biyombo played 4x as many minutes as O'Quinn did.

 

Would you give up a 1st round pick for Kyle O'Quinn, magicblue? Because O'Quinn has been better than Biyombo so far in their careers.

 

No, I wouldn't give up a 1st rounder for O'Quinn but as much as their numbers are similar (and I concede much better for O'Quinn offensively) there are things BB can do that O'Quinn cannot and will never be able to do. Namely be a game changer defensively.

 

Biyombo is 3 years younger, considerably more athletic, a much better shot blocker (his per 36 was 2.4 bpg not 1.8, he averaged 1.8 in 27 mins per last year) and in my opinion he's just scratching the surface. I guess we'll find out over the next couple years.

 

Again, my preference would not be to trade a first rounder for him but considering what is likely to be available in the early 20's in the upcoming draft I would certainly consider it.

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Vuc and Harris are due for extensions this offseason. Then Harkless, then Oladipo. Where/how does Biyombo fit in that? His number won't go up until 2 years, but you can't just recklessly throw money on a player like that. I like our guys much more than anything Biyombo brings.

 

I don't understand the question or the actual point you're trying to make? We could just extend him as well, could we not? You're obviously trying to make this more complicated than it is (talking about extensions 3-4 years out, lol!) for the sake of argument with every assumption being that BB is what he is and will not improve. This is where you and I differ in opinion and that's fine. Glad you like our guys, I do too.

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No, I wouldn't give up a 1st rounder for O'Quinn but as much as their numbers are similar (and I concede much better for O'Quinn offensively) there are things BB can do that O'Quinn cannot and will never be able to do. Namely be a game changer defensively.

 

What has Biyombo done to make you think he can be a game changer defensively? I'm seriously baffled by this.

 

Outside of blocking a few shots, his defensive numbers are all not especially good, and his advanced defensive metrics are pretty lousy. Even that blogger that was quoted earlier was giving Biyombo huge credit for 2 blocks and 9 rebounds, which are pretty ho-hum numbers for a starting center, especially one who just played 37 minutes. Is it just that he's athletic? Because Tyrus Thomas was athletic, and teams wasted a really long time and a lot of money waiting for him to suddenly turn into a useful NBA player.

 

Note: I've gone back and fixed the blocked shot mistake.

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I don't understand the question or the actual point you're trying to make? We could just extend him as well, could we not? You're obviously trying to make this more complicated than it is (talking about extensions 3-4 years out, lol!) for the sake of argument but its not really working out well for you. Glad you like our guys, I do too.

 

there's thing called the cap. and luxury tax.

 

if we have to resign vucevic, and harkless, and harris, and eventually oladipo where is the money going to come to resign Biyombo? and spending on a guy like Biyombo means we can't spend in other places or acquire other free agents. You've already acknowledged you wouldn't give up a 1st round pick (or maybe you will, your ambivalence means you're noncommittal, so either way you're not "wrong" so to speak). But apparently he's worth enough to be extended (he'll get 7-8m a year based on history). So do you really think he's worth spending a big chunk of cap space on? And no mixed responses.

 

But of course, he's only 21 and athletic and bla bla bla things that are absolutely irrelevant to the discussion now. Even if he is as athletic as you say he is, it sure hasn't shown up in the box score the past 2 years. How long is his athleticism going to take to kick in? Anthony Davis' athleticism kicked in the second he got into the league. That is someone you can point to and say "yea he could be a game changer eventually," not a guy like Biyombo.

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Biyombo is not a center, but every word of a power forward. I do not think he is better than O'Quinn, but he does provide a dynamic that would contrast well with him...as a bench player. Biyombo would easily be the highest flyer in our frontcourt. He would probably be our second best front court rebounder, assuming Nicholson returns to the mean, but that's not saying much. He's certainly an energy guy where metrics don't clearly matchup with his output, he reminds me of Bo Outlaw-bad FTs and all.

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