2012 Election thread

[AcuWill 45]

Whichever one doesn't suggest that the US should deal with it's national debt issue by filing for bankruptcy.

So, based on your comments in this thread, literally every person that supports any candidate other than Ron Paul makes you think they are incredibly intelligent.

 

How do you rationalize this with the general disdain to people's intelligence you project towards nearly every person and comment on these boards? How about your comments regarding the general intelligence of the populace as a whole?

 

 

I am very excited to see how the great and venerable DOM rationalizes his place and interaction with the world. This should be an education in hypocrisy, narcissism, and cognitive dissonance.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

So, based on your comments in this thread, literally every person that supports any candidate other than Ron Paul makes you think they are incredibly intelligent.

 

 

Yes. That's exactly what I said and exactly what was meant by my comments.

 

Bravo.

[Berto 338]

There aren't many things worse than talking to one of Ron Paul's zombie supporters. I personally like the guy, but holy ****, his ideas are so fundamentally stupid that I just can't understand how some people can think of him as anything but a novelty act in the political game.

 

Outside of the hardcores on the right, most people like Obama even if they think he's not good at his job. Almost no one likes the cyborg formerly known as Mitt Romney, and when you add the money Obama will raise, I think he gets it unless something extraordinary happens in the next 9-10 months or so.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

There aren't many things worse than talking to one of Ron Paul's zombie supporters. I personally like the guy, but holy ****, his ideas are so fundamentally stupid that I just can't understand how some people can think of him as anything but a novelty act in the political game.

 

Outside of the hardcores on the right, most people like Obama even if they think he's not good at his job. Almost no one likes the cyborg formerly known as Mitt Romney, and when you add the money Obama will raise, I think he gets it unless something extraordinary happens in the next 9-10 months or so.

 

Not to mention historically elections favor the incumbent.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

With Paul, I think it's the fact that he takes really complex issues and boils them down into two sentence talking points that "sound good" to people who aren't really willing or able to wrap their heads around what enacting his ideas would actually entail.

 

Take for instance his suggestion that we shut down all non-domestic military bases and bring back all our troops back to America to "spend their salaries here,"

 

That sounds nice as a talking point, but the actual effect of suddenly having an extra 250,000+ soldiers in the US would be a huge problem, since, even if we ignore the fact that it would violate multiple treaties, leave several of our closest allies out to dry and likely result in South Korea turning into a 38k square mile sheet of glass, we'd have no where to put them. Either the government would have to spend huge money up front to build dozens of new military bases to house them all, or we'd have to immediately cut our military strength by about 15%, while flooding the entire country with over a quarter million newly unemployed American citizens with access to guns and firearms training.

 

But "Lets bring our boys home" makes a nice talking point, so some people will get behind it. It's the same thing as "Lets just wipe the debt away by filing for bankruptcy. That'll give confidence to investors" statement. Sure it sounds like when you've heard that we owe so much money to foreign governments, but when you consider that more than half of US debt is owed to American citizens and companies, you can't help but realize that suddenly telling everyone that US treasury bonds are now worthless sheets of paper would collapse the entire world economy almost overnight. I mean hell, Greece is a small-fry as far as 1st world economies go, and the whole market lost it's *****ing mind when they threatened to file for bankruptcy, and did it AGAIN when the EU couldn't decide how to deal with the Greece problem. The US files for bankruptcy, and the whole world goes to ****.

 

We're #1! We're #1!

[Berto 338]

With Paul, I think it's the fact that he takes really complex issues and boils them down into two sentence talking points that "sound good" to people who aren't really willing or able to wrap their heads around what they would enacting his ideas would actually entail.

 

Take for instance his suggestion that we shut down all non-domestic military bases and bring back all our troops back to America to "spend their salaries here,"

 

That sounds nice as a talking point, but the actual effect of suddenly having an extra 250,000+ soldiers in the US would be a huge problem, since, even if we ignore the fact that it would violate multiple treaties, leave several of our closest allies out to dry and likely result in South Korea turning into a 38k square mile sheet of glass, we'd have no where to put them. Either the government would have to spend huge money up front to build dozens of new military bases to house them all, or we'd have to immediately cut our military strength by about 15%, while flooding the entire country with over a quarter million newly unemployed American citizens with access to guns and firearms training.

 

But "Lets bring our boys home" makes a nice talking point, so some people will get behind it. It's the same thing as "Lets just wipe the debt away by filing for bankruptcy. That'll give confidence to investors" statement. Sure it sounds like when you've heard that we owe so much money to foreign governments, but when you consider that more than half of US debt is owed to American citizens and companies, you can't help but realize that suddenly telling everyone that US treasury bonds are now worthless sheets of paper would collapse the entire world economy almost overnight. I mean hell, Greece is a small-fry as far as 1st world economies go, and the whole market lost it's *****ing mind when they threatened to file for bankruptcy, and did it AGAIN when the EU couldn't decide how to deal with the Greece problem. The US files for bankruptcy, and the whole world goes to ****.

 

We're #1! We're #1!

 

I thought about making a rebuttal as a Ron Paul supporter, but I'm not feeling it right now. Maybe later.

 

Some of my favorite Ron Paul positions, or ones that I find extra funny are: no federal laws for sexual harassment because "being rude" shouldn't be a law and one can choose to work somewhere else, replacing environmental protections with private property laws, and ending the country's foreign policy as we know it as a means of preventing terrorism. Essentially, if we stop being so mean to them, they'll put aside their radical religious beliefs and ignore their promised reward for killing infidels.

 

edit: to be fair, that last one is hardly unique to Paul, but funny nonetheless. The position is actually most championed by very liberal thinking people.

[Cactus 83]

Whichever one doesn't suggest that the US should deal with it's national debt issue by filing for bankruptcy.

 

You still have yet to list candidate.

 

 

ending the country's foreign policy as we know it as a means of preventing terrorism. Essentially, if we stop being so mean to them, they'll put aside their radical religious beliefs and ignore their promised reward for killing infidels.

 

edit: to be fair, that last one is hardly unique to Paul, but funny nonetheless. The position is actually most championed by very liberal thinking people.

 

I consider myself conservative and agree with the last position, although you put it in a very mocking syntax. I find it hard to believe the radicals are against the US "just because they are hate our way of life", there's a fundamental reasoning for them disliking the country, however legitimate that reasoning my be. Intrustion in the middle east, Osama said it himself when talking about US interventionism:

 

As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:

 

(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.

 

a) You attacked us in Palestine:

 

( B ) You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon.

 

( c ) Under your supervision, consent and orders, the governments of our countries which act as your agents, attack us on a daily basis;

 

(i) These governments prevent our people from establishing the Islamic Shariah, using violence and lies to do so.

 

(ii) These governments give us a taste of humiliation, and places us in a large prison of fear and subdual.

 

Full Text Here...

 

Now whether you believe the intervention in the middle east is right or wrong is a different story, but refusing that it aided to and helped support the radical ideology of hatred towards the US is just straight up denial.

 

In regards to Ron Paul, the way I see it:

 

- He wont start a war with Iran without a declaration of war and an imminent threat

- He wont sign asinine legislation infringing on freedoms such as the NDAA and SOPA

 

Find me a candidate that conforms to those 2 and I'll consider.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

You still have yet to list candidate.

 

Are you asking me to add a list of the candidates to my original post?

 

I can do that, but it seems unnecessary.

[Berto 338]

but refusing that it aided to and helped support the radical ideology of hatred towards the US is just straight up denial.

 

I never said that. Sure, war/violence breeds resentment and more violence. However, to suggest isolationism would foster an environment of peace and that hatred/aggression towards the U.S. would cease to exist is extremely naive and dangerous. The foundation for the hatred is based in a radical view of Islam. The manifesto is out there for all to see. To sit on the sidelines and pretend like nothing has to be done about this is a very scary proposition from Mr. Paul. Regardless of policy, these people believe they are commanded by god to kill the infidels. The U.S. having a base in Saudi Arabia doesn't really matter when that kind of ideology is floating around.

 

And Mr. Bin Laden sure didn't mind our intervention when we were giving him and his boys money and guns in the Soviet/Afghan war.

[Berto 338]

Are you asking me to add a list of the candidates to my original post?

 

I can do that, but it seems unnecessary.

 

NAME ONE YOU SON OF A *****!

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

You mean who I'm going to vote for?

 

I have no idea.

[Berto 338]

You mean who I'm going to vote for?

 

I have no idea.

 

Let's just vote for Nader then get some ice cream.