J. Collins effectiveness vs. other Hawk 5's

[ball junkie 277]

I'm not sure the NBA has ever had a player like Jason Collins, which is an amazing statement considering he has a twin brother. But in this season in particular, Collins' uniqueness is staggering. Against 29 of the league's 30 teams, he has virtually no value. But against one particular opponent, he is solid gold.

 

Collins doesn't score or rebound, and he can't move all that well defensively. But he can do one thing better than anyone else in the league -- defend behemoth athletic centers. It's why he frustrated Shaquille O'Neal so much during his time with the Nets. And it's why the Atlanta Hawks have defended Orlando so ably in the teams' five meetings this season.

 

Atlanta won Game 1 on Saturday 103-93, beating the Magic for the fourth time in those five contests, and there were a lot of reasons for that. But paramount among them was the fact that Orlando scored only 19 points in the 18 minutes Collins was on the court compared to 74 in the 30 minutes he was off it.

 

This may not be immediately apparent, since Howard destroyed the likes of Josh Powell and Zaza Pachulia when Collins was off the floor en route to a career-high 46 points. Against Collins, however, he only scored 12 of them, and had six of his eight turnovers. Against the others, he had 34 points in 26 minutes while rarely turning the ball over or missing a shot. So Howard had a playoff career high "on" Collins, but most of the damage came against Atlanta's other centers.This is the biggest difference between this year's series between the Hawks and Orlando and last year's meeting, when an out-of-shape Collins picked up multiple fouls within seconds every time he took the court, and the Magic steamrolled Atlanta in the most one-sided best-of-seven series in league history.

 

This year, he's the most important player in the series besides Howard, even though he finished Game 1 with one point and nary a rebound. Sure, there were one or two fleeting moments of tangential offensive value -- he threw a Russ Grimm-like lead block on Howard to enable a Kirk Hinrich baseline drive for a layup, and flopped into Howard's fifth foul while cutting through the lane early in the fourth quarter -- but basically Collins took a zero on offense, like he always does. He just has so much defensive value against this particular opponent that he's still Atlanta's most important player in the series.

 

He goes on to say he expects the Magic to bounce back because the Hawks can't sustain their blistering shooting.

 

He also says Josh Smith sprained his left elbow at some point in Game1 which will hurt the Hawks somewhat.

 

GO MAGIC !!!!!

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-110419

[fan for too long 2 530]

So Dwight only scored 12 on Collins in 18 minutes. Wow that is really shutting him down. That works out to be about 26-28 points for a full 40 or so minute game for DH. What bothers me is the turnovers. Dwight has got to be quicker with his moves because he is letting the guards come down and strip him of the ball. This has to be his only weakness right now. Either a quick move or a pass out to the shooters or heaven forbid a cutter to the hoop. Would do wonders for this offense.

[Skywise316 211]

Well, I guess Josh & Hedo are even now, from an elbow standpoint.

[jack daniel 999 27]

JUST BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ibn Battuta 127]

So Dwight only scored 12 on Collins in 18 minutes. Wow that is really shutting him down. That works out to be about 26-28 points for a full 40 or so minute game for DH. What bothers me is the turnovers. Dwight has got to be quicker with his moves because he is letting the guards come down and strip him of the ball. This has to be his only weakness right now. Either a quick move or a pass out to the shooters or heaven forbid a cutter to the hoop. Would do wonders for this offense.

 

I agree with the turnovers, but some of them aren't his fault. A few of the 3-second violations were because Dwight had prime post position for too long while his teammates dribbled the ball around or passed to the wrong guy.

[Norman 49]

If dwight would make moves faster two things could happen. Either the opponents would have to foul to keep up or they would just be left behind.

[Ryan the Magic Fan 253]

Collins has quickly become the most overrated player on the Hawks. That in itself is an accomplishment.

[ball junkie 277]

As per John Hollinger....more interesting stuff....let's just hope Larry Drew doesn't figure it out.

 

The specific utility of Jason Collins against the Magic is really quite amazing. Once again the Magic found it virtually impossible to score when Collins was on the court and relatively easy once he stepped off.

 

Check out this stat, courtesy of NBA.com's newly launched StatsCube -- in two playoff games, the Magic average 57.3 points per 48 minutes with Collins on the court and 112.3 when he's off it, a whopping 55-point differential. In the regular season the numbers weren't too much different: In four games, the Magic scored 66.8 points per 48 minutes with Collins playing and 93.5 with him sitting.

 

Obviously, his matchup against Howard is key. Howard has put up huge numbers in this series, but nearly all of them have come against other Hawks defenders -- with Tuesday night's second quarter fiasco being a prime example.

 

Here's the link he was referncing:

 

http://www.nba.com/statscube/team-vs-player.html#Magic-vs-Jason-Collins|1610612753,2215;season=r

[ball junkie 277]

Hollinger crticizing Larry Drew:

 

Oh, did I leave that part out? Yes, the Hawks did the same thing with Collins, too -- their most valuable player this series because of his defense on Dwight Howard. Wanting to preserve Collins for the fourth quarter -- one he ended up not playing a minute in, because the Hawks were behind and Collins can't score -- Drew also sat Collins for the final 8:44 of the half with two fouls. And Zaza Pachulia, the backup to those two players? Yes, really. Him too. He picked up his second foul with 11:22 left in the half and immediately hit the pine for the rest of the period. Can't be having players getting a third foul in the second quarter, after all, because if they get three more, they'll be forced to sit out. And there's nothing worse than having a player forced to sit out. Which is why Drew sat them out. My brain hurts.

 

Up 'til that point the Hawks had the game under control, with a 10-point lead. Soon things would change dramatically.

 

First, Josh Powell came in, after he mystifyingly was left activated while Etan Thomas didn't dress. (True story: I was talking to two NBA front-office types before a game this month and we were trying to come up with the worst player in the league. Without any prodding from me, both of them nominated Powell.) Then came Hilton Armstrong, who managed to commit three fouls in his 5:20 stint but somehow stayed on the floor. Apparently the two-foul rule is waived for fifth-string centers.

 

Nonetheless, the damage was done. Orlando outscored the Hawks 26-10 over the final 8:44 of the second quarter, with Howard erupting for 17 points against Atlanta's scrubs.

 

There is no way to sugarcoat it: This is the most indefensible coaching decision I've seen this season. Horford played the entire second half and finished the game with -- you guessed it -- two fouls. This didn't come as a surprise to anyone who watched the Hawks this season. Horford has one of the lowest foul rates in the league at his position -- just 2.85 fouls per 40 minutes -- so even if he had stayed in the game with the two fouls he was at virtually no risk of fouling out.

 

Overall, when a real center was on the court the Hawks won Game 2 by 10 points. Unfortunately, Drew's personnel choices sabotaged them so badly in the second quarter that they missed a golden opportunity to grab this series by the throat.

 

I thought the same thing as I was watching the game....

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-110420

[BMP 424]

Collins is also an offensive liability and him playing a combined 35 minutes in those two games isn't anywhere near a good enough sample size.

 

 

SVG and the Magic have also done a good job taking advantage of the Hawks when they have Collins/Powell/Thomas/Armstrong in the game by essentially ignoring them defensively and running zones/throwing double teams and forcing tough shots from the other guys.

[Mr13A 93]

Yeah Collins did force like 3 consecutive turnovers from Dwight posting up. I'm sure Dwight will make the adjustment.

[Capo d'Orlando 85]

Hollinger is totally overrating Collins and I can't believe he refers to him as a real center and all the other guys as scrubs. Collins is just as much a scrub as anyone else on that team.

 

There was plenty of raving about Collins "holding" Dwight to 12 points in 18 minutes in game 1. If Dwight was scoring 12 points every 18 minutes he'd be averaging something like 30 points a game with the minutes he's playing; but I guess you're an excellent defender if your guy scores 30. If the other guys had all "contained" Dwight to 12 points while guarding him, he would have had 48 points in game 1 rather than 46.

 

I didn't catch the first half of game 2 but I guess Collins forced a few turnovers...good for him, but even if Collins had played all 48 minutes, Dwight would have still dominated the game. Don't credit a slow start by Dwight to Collins. If Dwight starts slow, it's because of Dwight and the offense the Magic are running.

 

It's the same with all the "Kobe stoppers" over the years. You really think Reuben Patterson could stop Kobe? No way, no how. He might have been guarding Kobe when Kobe had a bad game, but it was because of Kobe, not Reuben Patterson. It's the same with Collins. The only thing he's ever done to actually stop Dwight is to flop and get Dwight in foul trouble. That hasn't happened this series so far, so please quit acting like he's the most valuable piece to Atlanta's success. The most valuable piece to Atlanta's success has been Orlando's complete inability to hit open shots and the only way Atlanta wins this series is if that trend continues.

 

Hollinger should know better. Collins has not had an impact at all on this series, the +/- stat is a bunch of crap. Atlanta was going to lose that 10 point lead whether Collins was on the floor or not.

 

/rant.