The Official MMA Thread

[Berto 338]

Well, what you're doing with Nick Diaz can be done with anyone else.

 

Doing what? Showing you he hasn't beaten anyone good? Am I playing tricks?

 

GSP - oh he stinks, he lost to a fat lightweight in Matt Serra and was submitted by a wrestler

 

No, but it would be silly not to say that his loss to Serra is one of the worst defeats in the history of the sport. That has nothing to do with what I said, but all right.

 

Condit - he stinks, he lost to Martin Kampmann who got TKO'd by PAUL DALEY

 

You're playing the "fighter A beat Fighter B who beat Fighter C" game which is pretty worthless in general, and also has nothing to do with what I said.

 

remember BJ Penn was supposed to face Carlos Condit when Diaz and GSP were first scheduled to meet but then the switcheroo happened? If Condit had beaten BJ Penn you would've considered that a good win

 

No I wouldn't. Just like I don't consider Rory MacDonald beating him impressive either. He was still past his prime and fighting in the wrong weight class.

 

Nick Diaz is as valuable as any other opponent GSP has faced, let's see

 

A guy getting a title shot after a loss isn't as valuable as anything.

 

Josh Koscheck - just got KO'd by Robbie Lawler who also got KO'd by Nick Diaz

Jake Shields - lost a bunch of fights after his title shot

Dan Hardy - went on a 4 fight losing streak and almost got cut

 

Again, irrelevant information.

 

---

 

Those arguments are stupid and can be done with anyone else. I could say Anderson Silva lost to japanese cans back in the day (he did)

 

You could say that, but what does that have to do with Anderson Silva now? I'm still missing the part where Diaz beat top tier fighters.

 

Ok GSP won, no one's disputing that, but it wasn't outclassing anyone, GSP won every round with superior wrestling but he didn't really hurt Diaz more than Diaz hurt him.

 

He won the stand up portion of the fight as well. And if winning every round easily isn't outclassing your oppnent, then "outclassed" doesn't actually mean anything.

 

GSP did the same to Condit, to Koscheck, to Shields, to Hughes and to every god damn Welterweight in the world.

 

Yeah, that's why he's been the champion for the past 6 years. He's also only lost like 2 rounds in his last 11 fights.

 

I'm not butthurt, but trying to diminish Nick Diaz's skills just because he's a "punk" is stupid.

 

You responded with a bunch of non related bull**** and presented it as a counter to my post. Nothing you said remotely rebuked the claim that Diaz hasn't beaten anyone worth mention. All you did was point out how everyone beats everyone else, well, except for GSP. Thanks for that.

[Mauro Pedrosa 1,031]

Paul Daley was in a title eliminator UFC fight against Josh Koscheck, Nick Diaz beat him.

 

Daley TKO'd Martin Kampmann who beat Carlos Condit, Jake Ellenberger and so on.

 

If you couldn't realize from what I posted above that Paul Daley is a worthy competitor then I don't know what to say.

[Berto 338]

I think you need to stop watching MMA. At the very least, don't try to talk about it.

[Mauro Pedrosa 1,031]

I think you need to stop watching MMA. At the very least, don't try to talk about it.

Great argument there, champ

[Berto 338]

Great argument there, champ

 

All you did was repeat the same argument that doesn't apply to anything. It doesn't matter that Paul Daley beat someone else. It doesn't validate Nick Diaz. If Paul Daley was a great fighter, his last fight wouldn't have been in Cage Contender. The fact that he was a fight away from a title shot doesn't actually mean he was a fighter capable of holding a belt. Most of the guys who sit in the middle of the pack in a particular weight class never move too far up or down the ladder. They're the gatekeepers for elite fighters. That's why it's easy to play the "this guy beat that guy who beat the other," even though it doesn't prove a point. When a guy like GSP tears through a divsion, you have to start reaching for number one contenders who don't necessarily deserve it.

 

Every time Diaz has taken a step up in competition, he's lost. You're the same person who basically said Condit ran the whole time in his fight against Diaz, which perfectly illustrates your bias in favor of Diaz.

 

My overall point in my first post was Diaz has beaten up on guys who perfectly cater to how he likes to fight. It would be one thing if he was fighting elite strikers, but it's entirely another thing when he's fighting average guys in lesser promotions.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

I like "he got submitted by a wrestler" as a criticism of GSP, as though we should ignore the fact that the wrestler was a UFC Hall of Famer in his prime who was in the middle of string of 19 wins in 20 fights, 5 of which were by submission. Or the fact that GSP fought him two more times and dominated both of those fights.

[Berto 338]

I like "he got submitted by a wrestler" as a criticism of GSP, as though we should ignore the fact that the wrestler was a UFC Hall of Famer in his prime who was in the middle of string of 19 wins in 20 fights, 5 of which were by submission. Or the fact that GSP fought him two more times and dominated both of those fights.

 

Psh, that's the same Matt Hughes who lost to Thiago Alves who lost to Martin Kampmann who lost to Paul Daley. Case closed.

[Mauro Pedrosa 1,031]

I like "he got submitted by a wrestler" as a criticism of GSP, as though we should ignore the fact that the wrestler was a UFC Hall of Famer in his prime who was in the middle of string of 19 wins in 20 fights, 5 of which were by submission. Or the fact that GSP fought him two more times and dominated both of those fights.

I expected more from your reading comprehension. My "GSP got submitted by a wrestler" was an EXAMPLE of something people who try to discredit GSP say.

 

And what I said is that those stupid arguments can be made for any fighter.

 

I like it how BJ Penn was coming off a 1st round knockout win over Matt Hughes at 170 and also a draw against Jon Fitch (who was coming off a 5+ winning streak and was at the time the clear #2 to GSP) but since he lost to Diaz he was "past his prime".

 

Finally, if Paul Daley is not a good fighter (he got banned from the UFC for throwing a cheap shot at the end of a NUMBER ONE CONTENDER FIGHT) then NO ONE IS. If Nick Diaz hasn't beat anyone good then no GSP challenger has.

 

And then I'm hit with "you should stop watching MMA" lmfao, please go take a look at how Strikeforce fighters are doing in the UFC.

 

Tyron Woodley, Jordan Mein, Alistair Overeem, Bigfoot Silva, Shawn Jordan, Robbie Lawler, Isaac Vallie-Flagg, Fabricio Werdum, Dan Henderson etc.

 

Just because you don't know their names doesn't mean they are any worse than UFC fighters.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

I expected more from your reading comprehension. My "GSP got submitted by a wrestler" was an EXAMPLE of something people who try to discredit GSP say.

 

 

No, I understood your point.

 

My point is that your argument is idiotic, because you're acting like context doesn't exist, but it does. When GSP lost to Matt Hughes before coming back and beating him twice, that loss and those wins mean something different then when BJ Penn beat Hughes at UFC 123, because Hughes was a different fighter at that point in his careert. That matters, and by just throwing out names, you're acting like it doesn't.

[Mauro Pedrosa 1,031]

Alright, I hope we can move on because this argument isn't making any of us smarter.

[Mauro Pedrosa 1,031]

By the way, there's a lot of people saying Condit won his fight with Hendricks. I don't really see how

[NittanyBuc 757]

^ Can't do it to Jonny Bones. His one loss is a DQ because he was hitting the guy too hard lol.

As to Silva's future fights, I think Silva beats GSP, Jones beats Silva.