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Age has a lot to do with it. Your telling me you look at life the same at 31 then you did 21?

 

If you doubt it was my intention (it wasn't) then why even bother? You know it wasn't my intention since the person I responded to, his profile says hes 20 years old.

 

You say it doesn't exist. Just wondering, what life experiences have you had that is evident it doesn't?

 

It has nothing to do with it. Do I look at things differently? Absolutely. I'm a much bigger skeptic now than I was when I was 21. So how exactly does age factor in? Now I fully belive you intended to be condescending. Here is the funny part: If he was a Christian you wouldn't be even looking at his age. Since he disagrees with your belief structure, you write him off as being too young and dumb to know better. That, in a nutshell, is the problem with organized religion. You act like you know something that no one else knows and scoff at the people that actually want a little evidence before they believe.

 

I think I've listed enough questions to justify my belief that he doesn't exist. Feel free to answer them for me. I'm willing to listen to anything beyond, "Just believe in God and he will answer your questions." If you have a direct link to him, ask him and tell me what he says.

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Age has a lot to do with it. Your telling me you look at life the same at 31 then you did 21?

 

If you doubt it was my intention (it wasn't) then why even bother? You know it wasn't my intention since the person I responded to, his profile says hes 20 years old.

 

You say it doesn't exist. Just wondering, what life experiences have you had that is evident it doesn't?

 

I'm actually turning 22 in January. But thanks for disregarding my point because I don't have enough "life experiences".

 

The only thing you really gain from age is you become more cynical and more conservative (specifically economically). I have enough intellect to understand the way the world works though.

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It has nothing to do with it. Do I look at things differently? Absolutely. I'm a much bigger skeptic now than I was when I was 21. So how exactly does age factor in? Now I fully belive you intended to be condescending. Here is the funny part: If he was a Christian you wouldn't be even looking at his age. Since he disagrees with your belief structure, you write him off as being too young and dumb to know better. That, in a nutshell, is the problem with organized religion. You act like you know something that no one else knows and scoff at the people that actually want a little evidence before they believe.

 

I think I've listed enough questions to justify my belief that he doesn't exist. Feel free to answer them for me. I'm willing to listen to anything beyond, "Just believe in God and he will answer your questions." If you have a direct link to him, ask him and tell me what he says.

 

Thursday I prayed for a dryer sheet. God answered my prayers.

 

More people must have been praying for Oklahoma this weekend than FSU.

 

And why is Notre Dame doing so poorly in Football while Utah and BYU have done pretty well over the last few years. Coincidence? or is Mormonism really legit?

 

EDIT: Nvm, TCU is doing amazing. Totally screws with my point.

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It has nothing to do with it. Do I look at things differently? Absolutely. I'm a much bigger skeptic now than I was when I was 21. So how exactly does age factor in? Now I fully belive you intended to be condescending. Here is the funny part: If he was a Christian you wouldn't be even looking at his age. Since he disagrees with your belief structure, you write him off as being too young and dumb to know better. That, in a nutshell, is the problem with organized religion. You act like you know something that no one else knows and scoff at the people that actually want a little evidence before they believe.

 

I think I've listed enough questions to justify my belief that he doesn't exist. Feel free to answer them for me. I'm willing to listen to anything beyond, "Just believe in God and he will answer your questions." If you have a direct link to him, ask him and tell me what he says.

 

 

Wait...First you say that you doubt I was being condescending, now you fully "believe" I was? I say how age played a role in my beliefs and you continue to say "No it doesn't". Are you really going to argue with me about what factors played a role IN MY LIFE?

 

Why would I look at his age in the first place? Because he came across that of someone I knew. MYSELF. I explained that and never said he was dumb or wrote him off. I said stubborn which is a good thing at times. So what if I know what some don't? You act like you need to know what everyone does.

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Wait...First you say that you doubt I was being condescending, now you fully "believe" I was? I say how age played a role in my beliefs and you continue to say "No it doesn't". Are you really going to argue with me about what factors played a role IN MY LIFE?

 

Why would I look at his age in the first place? Because he came across that of someone I knew. MYSELF. I explained that and never said he was dumb or wrote him off. I said stubborn which is a good thing at times. So what if I know what some don't? You act like you need to know what everyone does.

 

You said my opinion doesn't matter because i'm "young". Thats being condescending.

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I'm actually turning 22 in January. But thanks for disregarding my point because I don't have enough "life experiences".

 

The only thing you really gain from age is you become more cynical and more conservative (specifically economically). I have enough intellect to understand the way the world works though.

 

You want physical evidence. I can't give you that. All I can say is continue searching.

 

Its funny. I never said anything but my own life experiences and it seems like I hit a nerve with some.

 

You gain a lot more then that with age my friend. I won't deny your intelligence on the world. I still got tons and tons of learning to do. I have kids who are all under 6 years old. Learning for me just began. Thats a great thing about life. You never stop learning.

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You said my opinion doesn't matter because i'm "young". Thats being condescending.

 

 

I said that? Please point out where I used those EXACT words. I understand that the computer can he a hard tool to communicate on but I never implied that your or anyones opinions don't matter. AGAIN, I said I shared the same opinion.

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The burden of proof is on the ones making an outlandish claim. etc. etc. etc. ectevcte c

 

:pokewithstick:

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The burden of proof is on the ones making an outlandish claim. etc. etc. etc. ectevcte c

 

:pokewithstick:

 

 

And if I'm wrong whats the result? If I'm a good father. Good husband. Good man to people. Caring. Hard working while at the same time believing in God and Jesus and I'm wrong about them, whats the end result? Imo, there is no burden.

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I was praying to him when I did see a need for him, when I still believed. You are right, I have no need or desire to pray to god now.

 

I am completely open to talking about religion but I don't see a scenario in which I ever become a Christian again. That's because I have way too many questions about the bible that no one on this planet can answer with anything definitive. Sure, someone can put their spin on why God had Jonah swallowed by a whale for failing to obey his orders despite the fact that Christianity states that everyone has free will. The problem is it's just an opinion. There are some opinions that have been regurgitated so often in sermons and books that the interpretations have become gospel themselves. I'm not that hard headed. If people were actually getting raised from the dead, I would be looking for answers really quick. I had a similar conversation with my mother the other day. She's obviously concerned for my soul and asked me if I would believe when the rapture occured. Ugh, yeah! If several billion people vanished off the planet, leading to one of the worst days in human history, then yes I'm going to believe. Hell, I'll be forming my own church. I guess my problem is that all of these earth shattering miracles occured all of the time back in bibilical days to reinforce people's faith and god can't be bothered anymore with that kind of stuff now.

 

Sorry buddy, Jesus dying doesn't count as a sign of anything. There is no proof of anyone sending him and only contradictory records of his existance written centuries after his death.

 

for the jonah story, there is no need to put a spin on it. people tossed him overboard and the whale actually brought him to the place he was supposed to go to in the first place. God wanted him to preach to them, and when he finally did, they all repented. if God had just let jonah run from him, that whole city would have remained in sin. and this further adds to my point. jonah was spoken to by God personally, and he still ran away. there were four hundred years between when the last old testament prophet wrote and when Jesus began preaching. in those four hundred years, signs were not happening, and israel thought that God had forsaken them. we only see the big miracles because thats what was recorded. it wasnt happening at all times, except when God was establishing his people. now that his people has been established, there is no need for many miracles because it would not serve as great of a purpose. does that mean miracles are done happening? no. in fact, they are much more prominent in places that dont have the means to the end which the miracles serve. someone needs to be cured of an illness, we have doctors. why should to pray to God for the sniffles? but in a third world country its much more severe, and i have heard many accounts from missionaries of great things happening in these countries.

 

Jesus did many miracles in the temple and in the region of galilee. these did not bring all of his followers to him. in fact, he even spoke against them. do you know that after he fed the five thousand the majority of the people he fed actually left him almost directly afterward?

 

Jesus did many miracles in the temple and in the region of galilee. do you know that after he fed the five thousand the majority of the people he fed actually left him? and the resurrection, if it did happen, is the single greatest argument for the existence of God.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYdzUYyIKMM

 

if the rapture occurred, you say youd be first to start a church, but what kind of church would that be? forced worship is not what is desired. and God desires his people to worship him not only with their hearts and souls, but in their bodies and minds, through service and learning.

 

you say that the records of his existence are both contradictory and written centuries later. i already showed you that they were written within decades of his death, on the witness of those closest to him, the apostles. paul even appeals in his letters to talk to those who saw Jesus and ask about him so they can affirm what he is saying. the contradictions that are in the gospels arent anything to make a big fuss over. in history, the most important thing is that all of the major events and themes align. as an ancient history, the gospels are just as reliable as any others that we currently trust. and they all agree on the biggest points of the gospel, that Jesus was sent by God, precluded by john the baptist, had a last supper, went on trial and was condemned to crucifixion, then rose again from the grave. these are the points that must be investigated.

 

if the four gospels in the new testament matched perfectly on every account, would that make them more reliable, or would it raise the question of conspiracy? if four different people see a car accident from four different places, it would make sense that the accounts differ. this is the same issue we have with the gospels. the fact that they differ actually helps the argument for the gospels authenticity.

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Wait...First you say that you doubt I was being condescending, now you fully "believe" I was? I say how age played a role in my beliefs and you continue to say "No it doesn't". Are you really going to argue with me about what factors played a role IN MY LIFE?

 

Why would I look at his age in the first place? Because he came across that of someone I knew. MYSELF. I explained that and never said he was dumb or wrote him off. I said stubborn which is a good thing at times. So what if I know what some don't? You act like you need to know what everyone does.

 

Yes, because your response to my comments changed my mind. If you had said "When I was young, I didn't really believe but I was drawn closer to God as I got older." that would have been completely acceptable. You told an annoymous poster that he was still young and hinted that he will change his mind when he gets older. Yes, when you discount what someone is saying because of their age, you are saying they are ignorant. If a 17 year old kid comes to me with relationship problems and I laugh and tell him, "Don't worry, you're too young to worry about this." I'm saying that he is too young to fully grasp what a relationship is. It is condescending and you come off as a complete ass when you say it. My problem isn't with age playing a factor in your life. It's you using age in a blanket statement saying that everyone will respond the same way you did, which is obviously complete crap because I had the opposite response over time. If I were to tell a 18 year old kid that the reason he believes is because he is still young, you would have a huge problem with that. The fact that it worked out that way for me is completely irrelevant.

 

By the way, my offer still stands. If you are capable of having a direct conversation with God, ask him for the answers to a few of my questions in this thread and I'll happily listen to them.

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Normal message board fashion. Post about an typo then say it doesn't mean what I think it means. LOL. Empirical: Relating to or based on experience and observation rather than on theory or principal. I listed certain life experiences that weren't based on theory or thoughts or beliefs but just experiences. I think that pretty much shows I know what Empirical means. Don't let the typo fool ya.

 

You quoted a definition of empirical that relates specifically to medical theory. In medicine, empirical theory means that the thing described is based on experience rather than scientific backing, which is why a synonym in medicine for "empirical theory" is "crackpot theory".

 

The more common definition of empirical is "provable or verifiable by experience or experiment."

 

So while you could argue that your experiences are proof of God's existence, said existence is in no way verifiable, and for that reason, the word was an inappropriate choice.

 

The problem with evolutionary theory is doesn't get to the source. I believe in a form of evolution. No, not that we came from monkey's or the big bang but I do believed we've evolved but I don't believe that particular theory replaces common sense. I've been down that road and science imo, has never been able to answer the source of all things. They try and try but they either change it up with a new theory or they just beat around the bush. Did you know btw, that some of the great minds in science are believers?

 

1. No real study of evolutionary theory has ever stated that man evolved from modern monkeys. Ever.

2. The Big Bang is a cosmological theory. Evolutionary theory is a biological theory. They are not remotely related.

3. As emory pointed out, "we do not yet know" is a perfectly acceptable scientific response to a question, and in most cases is the only reasonable one. Given that current technology makes putting blackholes, for example, into a jar and running tests on them in a controlled environment impossible, we can only theorize as to how they react to the universe around them, and even how they're created. The fact that we find evidence, even large amounts of evidence, for those questions doesn't make them facts(because they can't be tested) and it certainly doesn't mean that there aren't questions that are currently beyond our ability to answer.

 

But neither of those things puts us into a position where any answer is better than no answer. If I walk up to my desk, and there's suddenly a new computer there, I'm going to ask my coworkers how it got there. I'm positive I'd rather one of them say: "I don't know" rather than "Bob did it" if the person I'm asking actually doesn't know, regardless of the fact that the latter is a firm answer and the former is not.

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