The Official World Cup 2010 thread

[BMP 424]

Garrincha is probably still my favorite though...

[ManuGinobili 0]

quote:

If he carries on throughout his career the way he's started, then I think in the future he will be mentioned amongst those greatest of players, until then, I think people are being slightly over the top with their praise.

 

Thats it. I wish he could show the same fire for Argentina as he has done for Barca. Lets see how he does in the WC. If we win, then probably yes, he will start deserving consideration between the Top 10 in History.

 

If not, I dont think he deserves it yet.

 

Still Marca, ESPN, and most newspapers in the world treat him like he already is Maradona.

[crisby pancakes 126]

quote:

Originally posted by ManuGinobili:

quote:

If he carries on throughout his career the way he's started, then I think in the future he will be mentioned amongst those greatest of players, until then, I think people are being slightly over the top with their praise.

 

Thats it. I wish he could show the same fire for Argentina as he has done for Barca. Lets see how he does in the WC. If we win, then probably yes, he will start deserving consideration between the Top 10 in History.

 

If not, I dont think he deserves it yet.

 

Still Marca, ESPN, and most newspapers in the world treat him like he already is Maradona.

 

I don't know if this is true or not but I hear the Argentines don't actually think that much of Messi??

 

I don't know if this is because he's never really produced in the blue and white shirt or because people see him more as Spanish than Argentine with him being on Barca's books since the age of 13??

 

As for ESPN lol, they know nothing about football at all, I mean their 'insiders' knowledge of basketball isn't exactly great, so I take no credence in what they have to say with regards to football matters one bit.

 

The short is, Messi is a great player and has a shot at being remembered as a brilliant one. However good he was in the second leg against Arsenal, he was equally as bad in the first. He has a long ways to go but yeh, he's probably the first in a long time that has a shot at being remembered as one of the 'greats' IF he carries on how he's started.

 

Just out of curiosity, why do you think he's never produced on an international level?

[ManuGinobili 0]

quote:

Just out of curiosity, why do you think he's never produced on an international level?

 

You are right, Messi is shown no love at all from Argentinian fans.

 

Its definitely because of the lack of good play he shows in the National Team and the fact that he could not be any less charismatic. Also, theres no official support from any fanbase here for him, since he left for Spain at an early age so he could not get the chance to show his talent for an Argentinian team.

 

IMO, and I think I already stated this, Messi needs a Xavi-type player that can slow down things, be more of a cerebral passer and not so vertical as he is. He needs that kind of compliment, and in Barsa he also has the luck to be involved in a team full of stars, like Ibra, Henry, Xavi and Iniesta, so they dont have to go after him exclusively.

 

I think if Riquelme had not have that fight with Maradona,him playing would make it much easier for Messi. There you would have a guy who is very talented, although not blessed with the speed and the dribbling ability that Messi has. And the opposing teams would have to care for 2 superstars as playmakers, instead of one.

 

Now, even with us having some good talents like Higuain, Tevez, Di Maria, Veron, Mascherano, etc. Every sane coach in the world knows Messi is our ace of spades. So they will put one guy on him and foul him until he dies, like they tried to do with Maradona in 86. Maradona succeeded because he had the will to do it, and he indeed was a very charismatic person and a hearty leader. Messi has not shown any of this yet. Will He?

[COLOMBIANO 118]

There will always be the discussion of who was better, Maradona or Pele. Some will say Pele because of Maradona's behavior off the field, but I'm just 27 and just watched highlights of them both. I got to see Maradona in 1990 (I was 8) and in 1994 (12).

 

I have seen a million videos of them and they both seem great. Pele scored a lot of goals because back then every game was like that. Just like Wilt Chamberlain scored 100 points in a game. The game changes and defense becomes better.

 

Messi is the best of the new era, but I do agree with you all, Messi has not done anything with Argentina and he has this WC to change that.

 

Besides Messi, I want to see Ronaldhino back with Brazil and hopefully he will redeem him self from the 2006 WC.

[BMP 424]

I still think Pele > Garrincha > Maradona

 

but that's just me...

[crisby pancakes 126]

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

I still think Pele > Garrincha > Maradona

 

but that's just me...

 

Garrincha did play very well in the 62 world cup and scored a brilliant goal against England in the quarters, but his career faded quite quickly afterwards. Definitely a close second if voting for best Brazilian player ever.

[BMP 424]

quote:

Originally posted by crisby pancakes:

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

I still think Pele > Garrincha > Maradona

 

but that's just me...

 

Garrincha did play very well in the 62 world cup and scored a brilliant goal against England in the quarters, but his career faded quite quickly afterwards. Definitely a close second if voting for best Brazilian player ever.

 

His drinking definitely ruined him, but I'm talking just overall skillset and style of play. Not enough achievements to be considered one of the greatest, but good enough to be remembered for many more years.

[EnFuego 1]

quote:

Originally posted by COLOMBIANO:

I want to see Ronaldhino back with Brazil and hopefully he will redeem him self from the 2006 WC.

 

It is interesting that you mention Ronaldhino because I was telling a friend of mine that if he does not end up playing in this world cup, he would top my list of being the best player ever that did not display his greatness in a World Cup.

 

Of course, it is totally subjective on my part since the game in over 100 years old and so much of what we remember is from World Cup play.

 

I like the group of posters in this thread and I am curious as to whom you would nominate for this.

 

Who do you think is the best player that ever played but did not play great in their World Cup career.

[crisby pancakes 126]

quote:

Who do you think is the best player that ever played but did not play great in their World Cup career.

 

Hmmmmmm that's a tough one. I would probably go with Van Basten. Holland didn't even qualify in 86 and 1990 they went out in the first round. I name Van Basten over Cruyff due to the fact that cruyff led his team to the finals and was named player of the tournament and did 'that' turn during a world cup match which no one had ever seen before.

 

How about everyone also names the greatest team to not win the world cup. I put forward the 1974 Dutch team.

 

1974 dutch team, world cup

[COLOMBIANO 118]

quote:

Originally posted by EnFuego:

quote:

Originally posted by COLOMBIANO:

I want to see Ronaldhino back with Brazil and hopefully he will redeem him self from the 2006 WC.

 

It is interesting that you mention Ronaldhino because I was telling a friend of mine that if he does not end up playing in this world cup, he would top my list of being the best player ever that did not display his greatness in a World Cup.

 

Of course, it is totally subjective on my part since the game in over 100 years old and so much of what we remember is from World Cup play.

 

I like the group of posters in this thread and I am curious as to whom you would nominate for this.

 

Who do you think is the best player that ever played but did not play great in their World Cup career.

 

A few players may come to mind....

 

George Weah who had an outstanding career with AC Milan, but who I believe never even got to play in a WC.

 

Zico, I never saw him play, but I hear awesome things about him.

 

Thierry Henry, Although he played for France in 1998, if I'm not mistaken, he hasn't played well in a WC.

 

Peter Schmeichel, probably one of the best keepers of all time.

 

Ruud Gullit, same history as Van Basten.

 

To name a few of since 2000, Raul Gonzalez, Oliver Kahn, Rio Ferdinan.

 

Do you guys remember Denilson? The brazilian dude who was transferred to Real Betis from Spain and was supposed to be a star? I followed that guy since he played in Brazil and what a disappointed.

[ManuGinobili 0]

quote:

Thierry Henry, Although he played for France in 1998, if I'm not mistaken, he hasn't played well in a WC.

 

Henry did play well in 2006, even scoring in quarters against Brazil. I think he was part of the champions team in 98, but was not integral to that team.

 

You are dead on about Raul, he was one of my favorites going up, but after he scored against Nigeria a beautiful goal in 98, he didnt do much else. Definitely a top 5 in stars disappointments in WC.

 

As I am only 26, the ones I can name are Raul, Van Basten, Riquelme, Beckham... I will remember more with time. Etoo and Weah didnt play any I think, and those were amazing. At least Etoo will be able to show this WC what he can do.

 

And the ones who played better in WC than in their whole career:

 

Most notably Salvatore Scilacchi, in Italy 90. Baggio was very good in 90 and 94, but he was also good in clubs level. My father told me all that Paolo Rossi ever did was that amazing display in 82. So apparently, the Italians are very good when it comes to clutch situations.

 

Its interesting whatever names you guys can throw out.

 

Denilso and Lentini, I remember them for being paid a fortune in Italy and Spain, and never lived up to the billing.