The Official World Cup 2010 thread

[crisby pancakes 126]

quote:

Originally posted by COLOMBIANO:

quote:

Originally posted by crisby pancakes:

I'm mainly angry at Blatter and Platini for being stuck in the middle ages and not moving on with video evidence the idea that it would slow the game down is ridiculous.

 

I would disagree. Soccer is a non stop game unlike Basketball, American Football or baseball. We only have one 15 min break and maybe 2 or 3 min when there is an injured player.

 

You have seen often times that when a team is attacking with all they've got and they're about to score the other team tries to find a way to slow down the pace of the game by faking an injury or something. I wouldn't mind something like 1 challenge per game "Like American footbaall" but I wouldn't like to use replay a lot. I understand it would prevent a lot of penalties, red cards and goals like the one we saw the other day, but it would slow down the game a bit.

 

Yeh I should have clarified, I do not want constant video playback for decisions just having one or two a game would actually be a great idea, they've tried adding 2 extra officials in europa league matches but that hasnt worked at all either with the Fulham vs Roma match being a good example (Fulham wrongly had two players sent off)I just feel when there is a wrong call the players spend at least one minute arguing with the ref when it takes 30 secs max to watch a replay. I think having one call a game would be a good comprimise.

[Ullan 0]

quote:

Originally posted by crisby pancakes:

quote:

Originally posted by COLOMBIANO:

quote:

Originally posted by crisby pancakes:

I'm mainly angry at Blatter and Platini for being stuck in the middle ages and not moving on with video evidence the idea that it would slow the game down is ridiculous.

 

I would disagree. Soccer is a non stop game unlike Basketball, American Football or baseball. We only have one 15 min break and maybe 2 or 3 min when there is an injured player.

 

You have seen often times that when a team is attacking with all they've got and they're about to score the other team tries to find a way to slow down the pace of the game by faking an injury or something. I wouldn't mind something like 1 challenge per game "Like American footbaall" but I wouldn't like to use replay a lot. I understand it would prevent a lot of penalties, red cards and goals like the one we saw the other day, but it would slow down the game a bit.

 

Yeh I should have clarified, I do not want constant video playback for decisions just having one or two a game would actually be a great idea, they've tried adding 2 extra officials in europa league matches but that hasnt worked at all either with the Fulham vs Roma match being a good example (Fulham wrongly had two players sent off)I just feel when there is a wrong call the players spend at least one minute arguing with the ref when it takes 30 secs max to watch a replay. I think having one call a game would be a good comprimise.

 

again I am going to use the rugby example, but I think the only in-game stoppages should be for looking more closely at contentious goals. I think simulation/diving/fouls/cards etc should all be (re)assessed after the game and retrospective action taken where required. It would take all contention out of the game since the things that matter would all be fully scrutinised, it would eliminate the horrible aspect of the game that is becoming more prevalent causing the perpetrators to get on with playing, leaving us with the beautiful game in its purest form.

[Caco 0]

quote:

Originally posted by adsm:

quote:

Originally posted by crisby pancakes:

quote:

Originally posted by COLOMBIANO:

quote:

Originally posted by crisby pancakes:

I'm mainly angry at Blatter and Platini for being stuck in the middle ages and not moving on with video evidence the idea that it would slow the game down is ridiculous.

 

I would disagree. Soccer is a non stop game unlike Basketball, American Football or baseball. We only have one 15 min break and maybe 2 or 3 min when there is an injured player.

 

You have seen often times that when a team is attacking with all they've got and they're about to score the other team tries to find a way to slow down the pace of the game by faking an injury or something. I wouldn't mind something like 1 challenge per game "Like American footbaall" but I wouldn't like to use replay a lot. I understand it would prevent a lot of penalties, red cards and goals like the one we saw the other day, but it would slow down the game a bit.

 

Yeh I should have clarified, I do not want constant video playback for decisions just having one or two a game would actually be a great idea, they've tried adding 2 extra officials in europa league matches but that hasnt worked at all either with the Fulham vs Roma match being a good example (Fulham wrongly had two players sent off)I just feel when there is a wrong call the players spend at least one minute arguing with the ref when it takes 30 secs max to watch a replay. I think having one call a game would be a good comprimise.

 

again I am going to use the rugby example, but I think the only in-game stoppages should be for looking more closely at contentious goals. I think simulation/diving/fouls/cards etc should all be (re)assessed after the game and retrospective action taken where required. It would take all contention out of the game since the things that matter would all be fully scrutinised, it would eliminate the horrible aspect of the game that is becoming more prevalent causing the perpetrators to get on with playing, leaving us with the beautiful game in its purest form.

 

I agree, I would only use replays for goal situations, where a team could use its challenge once a game. If the team wins the challenge they could use it again. Otherwise, though luck...

[Caco 0]

quote:

Originally posted by EnFuego:

quote:

Originally posted by Caco:

Spain always manages to lose when it counts, and they still don't have some character guys who provide the necessary swagger.

 

I am not a big believer in trends when we are talking about a large span of time. Spain has been the great World Cup underachiever but this current team played no part in that. In Baseball, the Boston Redsox had gone 86 years without winning a world Series, but when they won in 2004, you could see why, those players had nothing to do with the previous 86 years.

 

Same with Spain. They had been almost equally dissapointing in the Euro Cup (44 years since their one win) but they took care of business last year.

 

Short of the puzzling loss to USA, they have been overwelming. If you don't see the swager, you haven't seen them enough.

 

Torres, Cesc, David Villa, Iniesta, Casillas, Puyol, Xavi, Xavi Alonso, Those guys have nothing to do, nor do they play like, a team that will choke.

 

Now, I know futbol, and anything can happen, but this is not the old Spanish teams where everyone played in Spain and there were many times their best player didn't even start for their professional team because they played for Barca or Real and they where always so loaded.

 

The best thing to happen to Spain is to have Torres and Cesc, and Xavi Alonso play in England [adsm, I also follow Liverpool but, *** is happening).

 

Spain is loaded, a great offense, a strong defense, the best goal keeper in the world (how many countires would love to have Pepe Reina and he's our back-up!)

 

I can't wait.

 

Oh, by the way, if Ireland gets a replay because Le hand of God, wake up all the ghosts, there are at least 100 games that will need to be replayed, even if all the participants are dead. I'll take South Korea v. Spain in 2002 when we got robbed big time.

 

Well I've seen a couple of spanish teams that were as hyped as this and lost in bad manners.

 

However, I understand this is the best Spanish NT ever.

And that they have actually won the Euroleague, when the doubters were saying the same thing I said a few posts before.

 

I think Spain is playing the best football in the world right now, don't get me wrong.

 

But from my point of view, Spain has a lot of very good to excellent players, but none of them is a world class. And I don't see in Spain a team that can overcome big adversities. None of its players give me that sense of: "ok, we're in trouble, keep the cool and let's get out of this mess".

 

Basically, I don't see a spanish player who can be a true leader, and lead the team when it counts the most.

 

Casillas, Puyol, Xabi, Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc, Torres, Villa are all very good players, but I would put all of them in the second tier of best players worldwide, and even below when it comes to experience and leadership. That's the swagger I don't see in this team.

 

I actually think that a team that manages to slow down Xavi and Iniesta has the advantaje against Spain.

 

Bottom line, I think Spain is one of the favourites, and probably will play the best football in the WC, but in the one or two matches that count, they will probably be slowed down and defeated.

[COLOMBIANO 118]

quote:

Originally posted by Caco:

quote:

Originally posted by EnFuego:

quote:

Originally posted by Caco:

Spain always manages to lose when it counts, and they still don't have some character guys who provide the necessary swagger.

 

I am not a big believer in trends when we are talking about a large span of time. Spain has been the great World Cup underachiever but this current team played no part in that. In Baseball, the Boston Redsox had gone 86 years without winning a world Series, but when they won in 2004, you could see why, those players had nothing to do with the previous 86 years.

 

Same with Spain. They had been almost equally dissapointing in the Euro Cup (44 years since their one win) but they took care of business last year.

 

Short of the puzzling loss to USA, they have been overwelming. If you don't see the swager, you haven't seen them enough.

 

Torres, Cesc, David Villa, Iniesta, Casillas, Puyol, Xavi, Xavi Alonso, Those guys have nothing to do, nor do they play like, a team that will choke.

 

Now, I know futbol, and anything can happen, but this is not the old Spanish teams where everyone played in Spain and there were many times their best player didn't even start for their professional team because they played for Barca or Real and they where always so loaded.

 

The best thing to happen to Spain is to have Torres and Cesc, and Xavi Alonso play in England [adsm, I also follow Liverpool but, *** is happening).

 

Spain is loaded, a great offense, a strong defense, the best goal keeper in the world (how many countires would love to have Pepe Reina and he's our back-up!)

 

I can't wait.

 

Oh, by the way, if Ireland gets a replay because Le hand of God, wake up all the ghosts, there are at least 100 games that will need to be replayed, even if all the participants are dead. I'll take South Korea v. Spain in 2002 when we got robbed big time.

 

Well I've seen a couple of spanish teams that were as hyped as this and lost in bad manners.

 

However, I understand this is the best Spanish NT ever.

And that they have actually won the Euroleague, when the doubters were saying the same thing I said a few posts before.

 

I think Spain is playing the best football in the world right now, don't get me wrong.

 

But from my point of view, Spain has a lot of very good to excellent players, but none of them is a world class. And I don't see in Spain a team that can overcome big adversities. None of its players give me that sense of: "ok, we're in trouble, keep the cool and let's get out of this mess".

 

Basically, I don't see a spanish player who can be a true leader, and lead the team when it counts the most.

 

Casillas, Puyol, Xabi, Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc, Torres, Villa are all very good players, but I would put all of them in the second tier of best players worldwide, and even below when it comes to experience and leadership. That's the swagger I don't see in this team.

 

I actually think that a team that manages to slow down Xavi and Iniesta has the advantaje against Spain.

 

Bottom line, I think Spain is one of the favourites, and probably will play the best football in the WC, but in the one or two matches that count, they will probably be slowed down and defeated.

 

You make a great point about having a superstar player like Kaka for Brazil, Messi for Argentina, Ronaldo for Portugal. Those players can carry the team and are leaders in their team, but Spain is a very complete team who have excellent players at all positions unlike some teams that may have 2 or 3 supertars, 5 or 6 excellent players and 2 or 3 mediocre players. Too bad we still have to wait 8 more months for the WC.

[Ullan 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Caco:

quote:

Originally posted by EnFuego:

quote:

Originally posted by Caco:

Spain always manages to lose when it counts, and they still don't have some character guys who provide the necessary swagger.

 

I am not a big believer in trends when we are talking about a large span of time. Spain has been the great World Cup underachiever but this current team played no part in that. In Baseball, the Boston Redsox had gone 86 years without winning a world Series, but when they won in 2004, you could see why, those players had nothing to do with the previous 86 years.

 

Same with Spain. They had been almost equally dissapointing in the Euro Cup (44 years since their one win) but they took care of business last year.

 

Short of the puzzling loss to USA, they have been overwelming. If you don't see the swager, you haven't seen them enough.

 

Torres, Cesc, David Villa, Iniesta, Casillas, Puyol, Xavi, Xavi Alonso, Those guys have nothing to do, nor do they play like, a team that will choke.

 

Now, I know futbol, and anything can happen, but this is not the old Spanish teams where everyone played in Spain and there were many times their best player didn't even start for their professional team because they played for Barca or Real and they where always so loaded.

 

The best thing to happen to Spain is to have Torres and Cesc, and Xavi Alonso play in England [adsm, I also follow Liverpool but, *** is happening).

 

Spain is loaded, a great offense, a strong defense, the best goal keeper in the world (how many countires would love to have Pepe Reina and he's our back-up!)

 

I can't wait.

 

Oh, by the way, if Ireland gets a replay because Le hand of God, wake up all the ghosts, there are at least 100 games that will need to be replayed, even if all the participants are dead. I'll take South Korea v. Spain in 2002 when we got robbed big time.

 

Well I've seen a couple of spanish teams that were as hyped as this and lost in bad manners.

 

However, I understand this is the best Spanish NT ever.

And that they have actually won the Euroleague, when the doubters were saying the same thing I said a few posts before.

 

I think Spain is playing the best football in the world right now, don't get me wrong.

 

But from my point of view, Spain has a lot of very good to excellent players, but none of them is a world class. And I don't see in Spain a team that can overcome big adversities. None of its players give me that sense of: "ok, we're in trouble, keep the cool and let's get out of this mess".

 

Basically, I don't see a spanish player who can be a true leader, and lead the team when it counts the most.

 

Casillas, Puyol, Xabi, Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc, Torres, Villa are all very good players, but I would put all of them in the second tier of best players worldwide, and even below when it comes to experience and leadership. That's the swagger I don't see in this team.

 

I actually think that a team that manages to slow down Xavi and Iniesta has the advantaje against Spain.

 

Bottom line, I think Spain is one of the favourites, and probably will play the best football in the WC, but in the one or two matches that count, they will probably be slowed down and defeated.

 

have to disagree, there is no midfield pairing that matches the vision and skill of Xavi & Iniesta, pure class. Best keeper in the world must be world class, and don't even think about forgetting Torres, there just isn't a better striker in the world right now. Spain may not have the same clear-cut leader as some other nations but the guys I just named are definitely world class.

 

(in my humble opinion)

[Caco 0]

quote:

Originally posted by adsm:

quote:

Originally posted by Caco:

quote:

Originally posted by EnFuego:

quote:

Originally posted by Caco:

Spain always manages to lose when it counts, and they still don't have some character guys who provide the necessary swagger.

 

I am not a big believer in trends when we are talking about a large span of time. Spain has been the great World Cup underachiever but this current team played no part in that. In Baseball, the Boston Redsox had gone 86 years without winning a world Series, but when they won in 2004, you could see why, those players had nothing to do with the previous 86 years.

 

Same with Spain. They had been almost equally dissapointing in the Euro Cup (44 years since their one win) but they took care of business last year.

 

Short of the puzzling loss to USA, they have been overwelming. If you don't see the swager, you haven't seen them enough.

 

Torres, Cesc, David Villa, Iniesta, Casillas, Puyol, Xavi, Xavi Alonso, Those guys have nothing to do, nor do they play like, a team that will choke.

 

Now, I know futbol, and anything can happen, but this is not the old Spanish teams where everyone played in Spain and there were many times their best player didn't even start for their professional team because they played for Barca or Real and they where always so loaded.

 

The best thing to happen to Spain is to have Torres and Cesc, and Xavi Alonso play in England [adsm, I also follow Liverpool but, *** is happening).

 

Spain is loaded, a great offense, a strong defense, the best goal keeper in the world (how many countires would love to have Pepe Reina and he's our back-up!)

 

I can't wait.

 

Oh, by the way, if Ireland gets a replay because Le hand of God, wake up all the ghosts, there are at least 100 games that will need to be replayed, even if all the participants are dead. I'll take South Korea v. Spain in 2002 when we got robbed big time.

 

Well I've seen a couple of spanish teams that were as hyped as this and lost in bad manners.

 

However, I understand this is the best Spanish NT ever.

And that they have actually won the Euroleague, when the doubters were saying the same thing I said a few posts before.

 

I think Spain is playing the best football in the world right now, don't get me wrong.

 

But from my point of view, Spain has a lot of very good to excellent players, but none of them is a world class. And I don't see in Spain a team that can overcome big adversities. None of its players give me that sense of: "ok, we're in trouble, keep the cool and let's get out of this mess".

 

Basically, I don't see a spanish player who can be a true leader, and lead the team when it counts the most.

 

Casillas, Puyol, Xabi, Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc, Torres, Villa are all very good players, but I would put all of them in the second tier of best players worldwide, and even below when it comes to experience and leadership. That's the swagger I don't see in this team.

 

I actually think that a team that manages to slow down Xavi and Iniesta has the advantaje against Spain.

 

Bottom line, I think Spain is one of the favourites, and probably will play the best football in the WC, but in the one or two matches that count, they will probably be slowed down and defeated.

 

have to disagree, there is no midfield pairing that matches the vision and skill of Xavi & Iniesta, pure class. Best keeper in the world must be world class, and don't even think about forgetting Torres, there just isn't a better striker in the world right now. Spain may not have the same clear-cut leader as some other nations but the guys I just named are definitely world class.

 

(in my humble opinion)

 

First of all I don't want you to think I'm a spanish hater. I'm from Uruguay, we speak spanish, have spanish heritage and thousands of uruguayans live there, including my own sister.

 

I just think they are sooooooo overrated...

 

Casillas is one of the best keepers in the world, but is not a leader. At least not a vocal one.

 

Xavi and Iniesta are excellent midfielders, but they can be contained far more easily than Messi, CR, Kak

[EnFuego 1]

quote:

Originally posted by Caco:

quote:

Originally posted by adsm:

quote:

Originally posted by Caco:

quote:

Originally posted by EnFuego:

quote:

Originally posted by Caco:

Spain always manages to lose when it counts, and they still don't have some character guys who provide the necessary swagger.

 

I am not a big believer in trends when we are talking about a large span of time. Spain has been the great World Cup underachiever but this current team played no part in that. In Baseball, the Boston Redsox had gone 86 years without winning a world Series, but when they won in 2004, you could see why, those players had nothing to do with the previous 86 years.

 

Same with Spain. They had been almost equally dissapointing in the Euro Cup (44 years since their one win) but they took care of business last year.

 

Short of the puzzling loss to USA, they have been overwelming. If you don't see the swager, you haven't seen them enough.

 

Torres, Cesc, David Villa, Iniesta, Casillas, Puyol, Xavi, Xavi Alonso, Those guys have nothing to do, nor do they play like, a team that will choke.

 

Now, I know futbol, and anything can happen, but this is not the old Spanish teams where everyone played in Spain and there were many times their best player didn't even start for their professional team because they played for Barca or Real and they where always so loaded.

 

The best thing to happen to Spain is to have Torres and Cesc, and Xavi Alonso play in England [adsm, I also follow Liverpool but, *** is happening).

 

Spain is loaded, a great offense, a strong defense, the best goal keeper in the world (how many countires would love to have Pepe Reina and he's our back-up!)

 

I can't wait.

 

Oh, by the way, if Ireland gets a replay because Le hand of God, wake up all the ghosts, there are at least 100 games that will need to be replayed, even if all the participants are dead. I'll take South Korea v. Spain in 2002 when we got robbed big time.

 

Well I've seen a couple of spanish teams that were as hyped as this and lost in bad manners.

 

However, I understand this is the best Spanish NT ever.

And that they have actually won the Euroleague, when the doubters were saying the same thing I said a few posts before.

 

I think Spain is playing the best football in the world right now, don't get me wrong.

 

But from my point of view, Spain has a lot of very good to excellent players, but none of them is a world class. And I don't see in Spain a team that can overcome big adversities. None of its players give me that sense of: "ok, we're in trouble, keep the cool and let's get out of this mess".

 

Basically, I don't see a spanish player who can be a true leader, and lead the team when it counts the most.

 

Casillas, Puyol, Xabi, Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc, Torres, Villa are all very good players, but I would put all of them in the second tier of best players worldwide, and even below when it comes to experience and leadership. That's the swagger I don't see in this team.

 

I actually think that a team that manages to slow down Xavi and Iniesta has the advantaje against Spain.

 

Bottom line, I think Spain is one of the favourites, and probably will play the best football in the WC, but in the one or two matches that count, they will probably be slowed down and defeated.

 

have to disagree, there is no midfield pairing that matches the vision and skill of Xavi & Iniesta, pure class. Best keeper in the world must be world class, and don't even think about forgetting Torres, there just isn't a better striker in the world right now. Spain may not have the same clear-cut leader as some other nations but the guys I just named are definitely world class.

 

(in my humble opinion)

 

First of all I don't want you to think I'm a spanish hater. I'm from Uruguay, we speak spanish, have spanish heritage and thousands of uruguayans live there, including my own sister.

 

I just think they are sooooooo overrated...

 

Casillas is one of the best keepers in the world, but is not a leader. At least not a vocal one.

 

Xavi and Iniesta are excellent midfielders, but they can be contained far more easily than Messi, CR, Kak

[Caco 0]

Well, perhaps I've been reading too much Marca or As then.

 

When I say overrated, I mean especially by european media, and even more from spanish media.

 

Everybody knows Spain is one of the biggest candidates to win the WC.

But from what you read in the online sites, especially from spanish ones, there is no other team capable of beating them, besides perhaps Brazil.

And they name Brazil as a far second candidate.

 

I understand you do not overrate them, as you name other countries which are at the same level (or even a little below, but which are able to beat them). But what you read in the media is unbelievable.

 

For the record, when I said Raul as a spanish forward, I meant to say whoever played. I could have said Negredo (who is a mediocre forward if you ask me), G

[crisby pancakes 126]

I feel I have to disagree with you as well Caco.

 

I think Spain are deserved favourites for the world cup and they have by far and away the most creative midfield going to South Africa. Xavi, Iniesta and Fabregas are all players that can create that little piece of magic for Torres or Villa. Quite frankly when Cesc Fabregas struggles to get in that starting lineup it just shows how blessed they are in that department.

 

Im lucky enough to get to watch Torres every week being from England and I can assure you that Torres is very capable of creating goals for himself, in fact most goals he has scored this season have come from nowhere. Liverpools midfield looks lost without Alonso and as such, Torres is having to create a lot himself

 

I do agree that their weakness could be their defence, they are rather on the short side and as boring as it sounds the long ball and set pieces may be areas where Spain could be suspectable to conceding, however I should clarify that Spains defence is very good lol

 

Also I wouldnt compare Forlan to Torres, thats not even close. Torres is on a different planet to Forlan he's extremely average in my opinion. (No offence is intended I know he is loved in Uraguay)

 

I would much prefer to face a Messi than a xavi, Cesc or Iniesta, I think you place too much value on the name players. I actually think Messi is quite a poor player when in Argentina's colours, they just dont play a system that benefits their star guys. Teams like Spain, England, Germany, Italy etc have a more complete squad and play as a team rather than a group of individuals and that, IMO is why these teams are currently having a lot of success.

[Caco 0]

Listen, I too believe that Spain is one of the main candidates, as a matter of fact, I have them second on my list.

 

All I'm saying is that many websites and press online have them already as clear favourites to win the WC, and that translates to their fans, as you can easily see by reading some spanish forums such as AS.com and Marca.com.

 

And I believe that, even if they are playing the best football in the world right now, their style and players can be effectively contained by many teams in the WC.

 

I will put the Chelsea - Barcelona example again, since Spain plays the same style as Barcelona did/does. That is, they have the ball 60-70% of the time, and play always with short and precise passes.

Chelsea, who has some of the best defensive midfielders in the world, didn't give Iniesta or Xavi any space or time to play comfortably. Even with Messi, and Etoo playing, Barcelona couldn't create chances on Cech's goal.

On the other hand, Drogba was unstoppable for Barcelona's defense (which is again, similar to the current Spain defense), and if not for the referees, Chelsea would have qualified to the finals. For the record, I wanted Barcelona to win the match, but what Chelsea did was outstanding, against one of the best teams I have ever seen.

 

So, the way I see it, Spain would suffer the same way Barcelona did against teams such as Italy, Germany, England, Brazil, and even Argentina, if they put their act together.

 

All I'm saying is, Spain is ONE OF the favourites, like EnFuego said, but I think there is one clear way to play them, one that many teams can apply, and they don't have an answer for it. And so, I believe there is a good chance they will end up falling against one of the teams that plays them that way.

[EnFuego 1]

At some level, it seems that there is little, if any difference of opinion in how we feel about Spain and their chances in the World Cup.

 

It's just that when I read Caco's post I get a little confused. You qualify everything by saying that you think Spain is one of the favorites and you yourself ranked them second, but then the rest of your post describes a rather pedestrian team that can be "effectively contained by many teams in the WC".

 

If you really feel that way, you should rank them lower than second because a team where there is "one clear way to play them, one that many teams can apply, and they don't have an answer for it" should find it difficult to make it past the second round.

 

By the way, I don't read many Spanish blogs so I can't speak on their behalf but when I talk to my family in Spain, I don't hear that confidence. I would say any true and tested Spanish fan has high hopes but, in their hearts, will not take anything for granted.

 

Although I believe, as I mentioned earlier, that this team is made up of players who bear no scars for the country's earlier failures, the same cannot be said about their fans.

 

Believe men when I say this, Spaniards have learned to pretend the world Cup is not that important because it makes it easier to deal with their failures. Show me someone who is from Spain and is convinced Spain is going to win this coming World Cup. and I'll show you a picture of a ten year old.