Justin Jaudon

I will also add, no player in this draft has IT like Winslow. Dude's got that attitude you just love.

Cat, I think I understand what you're doing. I see the merits of the WCS pick, and I know that GM's value rim protection. I also know a smart coach convinced ownership to pay Josh Smith to go kick rocks (and I also also figure he probably wouldn't have done that if he didn't already have rim protection from his center). This is just one line of thinking the Magic could follow. But one thing seems to bother me. Is WCS a tough dude? He doesn't really seem to be. So I'm not banking on Orlando drafting him. I won't throw a fit if they do, as I see how it could work out. But I certainly think their are other ways Henny could go. Winslow fits the mold Orlando has been building with. Henny clearly believes shooting can be taught, and Winslow has shown an ability to improve in this area (he was not thought of as a shooter at all coming out of high school). Winslow, if we were more sure about his shooting improvement, would be considered right there with Russell and Mudiay. I'm not worried about his height, as he is long and athletic and could guard 4's in college (so NBA 3's shouldn't be too much for him). Mario is everyone here's top pick for a reason: probably the best potential at 5 and he fills a team need arguably as important as rim protection (though you are right that shooting is easier to find in FA, established shooters who could be stars are not). Length, athleticism, shooting mechanics. I could see Henny drafting this guy on the thinking that he has the highest ceiling. There are even more ways to go, like Porzingis for a mix of both major team needs and upside.

Very possible. Johnson is already a better range shooter and just as good if not better defender. Could be the best three-and-D guy in the league in a few years.

Very different shooting issues from Vic's. And I think Vic is getting better, to the point that within the next two seasons I expect him to be respectable. Winslow's problems are all about consistency with his release, as much as I can see. That's why he's so bad shooting off the dribble, and why I think it is a problem that can be fixed. Consistency will come with continued hard work and time and drills with a shooting coach. Winslow could be huge if he fixes his shot. He has literally everything else. It's why I liked the Vic pick, and it's why I would like the Winslow pick.

I think we're all superstars in our own ways. :bigparty:

Yes. There were other not-top-5-draft-picks who were better than he was. In fact, most of the guys who were better than he was were not even first round draft picks. I'm not discrediting Draymond Green or Andre Iguodala. I'm just saying they aren't very good offensive players by NBA standards. And both of those guys have averaged more points per game during an NBA season than has WCS against college talents in the lowly SEC. I get that you need guys to round out your team. I'm just not sure WCS does that. He plugs a hole. But does he create more problems on offense than he fixes on defense? His offense has not shown to be very good, and we have three years of tape on that.

Winslow could be scary good if his jump-shot becomes more consistent and he learns to shoot it off the bounce. Both of these things can be done. And I think Johnson could be the steal of the draft as well. His only real knock is his trouble finishing at the rim. That's another fixable issue, especially with his size and strength. It may just be that he needs to adjust to contact with bigger guys than he was going up against in high school.

Pretty much this.

I think that's kinda the point. He wasn't good enough to be in the top three offensive options on a college team in three years. Actually, with the one-and-done philosophy of UK these past few years, three essentially different college teams on which he was after the first year the most senior player, one of which was not even a Tournament team.

I see what you're saying. I don't know if I agree, as I think the first three picks could easily be modern analogs of Tim Duncan, Moses Malone, and James Harden. I think they each have that potential. No comparison is perfect, but I think one or more of these guys could end up being that good. (Obviously, in comparing Towns to Duncan, I'm talking talent; hard to ever expect someone to win 5 'ships)

I think that's a bizarre statement to make. This is quite possibly the deepest draft on superstar potential since 03. I think Towns, Okafor, Russell, and even Mudiay have as much chances to be superstars as anyone else drafted in a while, including Wiggins and Parker last year. And I think Mario, Winslow, and even Porzingis have the potential to be perennial all-stars. And then there are still guys who have scary potential if they can fix major problems. Turner? I could see him as a star if he fills out/stays healthy and adds to his post game. Johnson? Could be the best three-and-D guy in the league in a few years, if his shot keeps falling like it did in college. Hell, I'm still convinced Frank Kaminsky has a very good chance at being the biggest draft steal in a long time, if some of these mocks I've seen are close. I could easily see him as a 20-8-3 guy, much like Nowitzki as he slowed down a bit. I'm not saying all of these guys will pan out as stars, or even more than a few. But if almost anyone in the top 10 has star potential, and 6 or 7 have superstar potential, then the odds are at least one will be a superstar.

Unless we think Orlando can woo Durant, I'm not sure what home run is going to be available in 2016. (And I don't see Durant coming here when he could go to Washington and play with Wall and Beal, or stay in OKC and play with Westbrook and Ibaka, a situation he seems to like.

Nightmares, maybe. But seriously, I was basically just meaning his athleticism and skill set, not his absurd mentality. Smith would be great if you transplanted Shawn Marion's brain into him. He can hit threes, he can defend, he can pass. He's just brain-dead sometimes. That's why I said a hybrid of Smith and Marion. Marion had a similar skill set (but not as absurd an athlete or the size to really play the 4). I don't think Gordon will ever be as good a shot-blocker as Smith or young Marion, but I think he can be pretty good, and his skill set mirrors a mix between the two. With maximized potential, that could be a really good player.

This is intriguing to me, as I always thought that when he took the mid-range jumper in college it looked like there was something there. I'm still not a huge fan of the pick, because I agree with you that, long-term, he and Vuc are not together if WCS is starter-good. I think Vuc right now is the best asset Orlando has. Guys who score and rebound like that are extremely rare. And I do think he has potential, with his size and strength, to be at least an average interior defender. It's almost starting to look like this, with this draft: If Orlando drafts WCS, they can keep Harris long-term, but not Vuc (unless Gordon develops as the Shawn Marion/Josh Smith hybrid that dreams are made of). If they draft one of the wing guys (or Kristaps, probably), they can keep Vuc, but Harris may be out (or at least pushed to a sixth man role). I like Harris. I like Vuc. And both will be trade-able assets. Vuc's contract will probably make him more trade-able. I suppose I don't hate this pick. But I still think Mario is the best idea

That is my big problem with drafting WCS. That offense would have absolutely no room to operate. Literally the best 3-point shooter in that lineup is Victor Oladipo. Granted, I think Gordon can get his shot going a lot better, eventually. It's just that I'm not sure he will be good enough next year to help create spacing, which is a huge problem with this offense. That, and I still think Gordon projects better as a stretch 4. The thing to me is determining which is more valuable to this team: rim protection or spacing? Can a team be an top-ten defense without a great rim protector? Yes. Atlanta did it. Can a team be an effective offensive team without a single 30-minute player who can shoot more than 33% from outside? No. The best offense offense in the league without an effective 3-point shooter was Detroit. Orlando does not want to be Detroit. And I just cannot in my mind justify paying Carroll max money. It would be like if Orlando had paid Pietrus max money in 08. Yes, he can play good defense. Yes, he can shoot. He cannot seem to do much else consistently. Draft WCS to backup at 4 and 5? I'm all on board. He could get plenty of minutes, depending on the lineups. But unless something is done about the spacing, he is a bad pick for Orlando, in my opinion.

This is why I don't hold stuff against people when I feel like they sound ridiculous. I can remember last year I was in the chatroom totally freaking out because Orlando drafted Aaron Gordon. I hated the pick. But some of you guys talked me down, didn't hold it against me, pointed me to some good video on Aaron. You see, I hadn't done the real work on looking at Aaron. I just looked at the numbers and saw he couldn't shoot free throws. To me, that was enough. But after researching the guy, I realized his potential was so high it was a pick betting on the team's ability to develop him. I still think Aaron can be a bigger Shawn Marion, which is well worth a 4th pick. The Skiles pick has me even more excited about that possibility. That's how I'm trying to see the freak-outs going on about Skiles. People want to judge him as if his career ark is set in stone. But the guy has all the X's and O's knowledge a great coach should, and he has the determination and fire, the ability to get guys playing hard. The question is, is the group Orlando has to play for him mature enough to do it the right way. Rob is betting that they are, which will bode well for Skiles.

I don't think we want Payton on the line much right now. ... Dear Lord, I don't want anything for Christmas. Just give Elfrid Payton a decent free-throw shot for me.

I've said it before, I don't see an issue with JB staying on, so long as Skiles is down with it. Boylan is not coming to Orlando, so Skiles needs assistants. At this point, I doubt they've had much opportunity to speak about it. Now I would assume they will have some sort of meeting (if ownership is also down), get to know each others' philosophies, and see if they can work together. Unless JB has people beating down his door for better gigs, I think he might go for it. The idea that there would be awkwardness this is not really understandable to me. Players understand the business, and I don't think it would be any different than bringing in a new guy to start at the 4. They all knew JB was a stop-gap.

This has always seemed like the most likely situation with Skiles. Obviously the ownership wanted Skiles. But ownership is not necessarily always wrong. They did hire Rob, and clearly they let him have his guy in Jacque. And Rob did not look uncomfortable to me on the podium, which you have to imagine he would if he were against Skiles. Rob said the right things about going through the process, and I think that has something to do with what Martins was congratulating him about. They let him have his process, and he didn't hold it against Skiles that his name came from ownership. If it was just an ownership push, there would have been no interim coach. Skiles in all likelihood would have been here since Feb. That is how he has come into every other job, mid-season. But the ownership let Rob do his diligence, and it all worked out. The more I research this whole scenario the more charmed it seems to me. I am very hopeful about this situation.

Obviously, I’m happy with Skiles’ signing. I’ve liked the guy as a coach since his days in Phoenix, and I loved his interview (especially his reaction to Bianchi). I’ve researched him quite a bit, and I like his philosophy and his resume. I didn’t see anything from the interview that led me to think the talk about this being Rob’s hire isn’t absolutely true. The truth is most on here (even those throwing tantrums) will admit that if Thibs had no interest then Skiles was the best available coach. And if that’s true, why would Rob not hire him? Should he have hired Mark Jackson (assuming he was even interested) just to avoid the appearance of nepotism? There’s no predicting what will happen in three years. Those who are unhappy will complain over the next three years any time the team performs poorly, blaming it on Skiles. I won’t be surprised. I also won’t be surprised if Skiles is gone in three or four years. But I would say the same thing had Orlando hired Thibs. Coaching in the NBA is almost always short-term, especially when you aren’t handed a HOF roster. But I think, as Catman said, Skiles could build a great career here. This is as good a fit as any I can think of, in terms of philosophy, talent level, and history. This could be the beginning of a great part of Orlando Magic history. We’ll all have to wait and see. But I’m hopeful. I’m glad he thinks this back court has great defensive potential, and I know he’ll hold them to that expectation. I’m glad he seems to have a good relationship with Tobias Harris (I’m on the Harris train for now, as I just don’t think you can reasonably let go of a guy with his versatility on offense). I’m glad Skiles seems to get along with Rob. Mostly, I’m glad he mentioned that this team needs to play defense and run, which I know most on here believe is the case. If they can do that, I think there could be something special here. There is plenty of potential as a half-court scoring team with Vuc and Harris, so long as there is improvement in outside shooting. I know this team can run when it plays defense, especially as AG improves and gets more minutes. Lastly, for those who want to say that Skiles never developed a star player, Shawn Marion says hi. (could he do the same for Gordon?)

I'm not sold on just how slow he is on D. He's no WCS, but I don't think he looks any slower than guys like Gasol or Nowitzki. Don't get me wrong: I know those are two guys who haven't ever been known for their defense (though I think Gasol was at one point pretty good, actually). I think he could play the 4, in most situations; just not too much with Vuc, unless they are up against a jump-shooting team that doesn't require too much rim protection. Put Kaminsky on a team with Dwight Howard and that's just scary.

I understand that. I do. But if they feel the difference between the two is small, they may not want to pay nearly twice as much for only a little bit better coach.

Here's the thing, though. Is Thibs worth the extra money he will want? If Orlando has to pay him $8 mil to coach there, that's got to be nearly twice what they'd be willing to pay Skiles. Is Thibs worth $3-4 mil more than Skiles? Is money even a consideration, even that much of it? I just don't know about that.

Like I said before, I wouldn't hire one over the other without a number of interviews. I like both of these guys a lot for this team.

Understand that I don't think he'd be a great pick for Orlando if they are not sure that Gordon can be their 4 of the future (of which I'm not sure, so if it were me I would not pick this guy): but I love Frank Kaminsky's game. Like Frye, his outside shooting would be very useful when paired with Dedmon. To me, Porzingis' ceiling is not much better than Frank Kaminsky is right now; just a bit better ceiling on the defensive end. Kaminsky is not a bad defensive player by any means. He moves so well that it makes up for a lot of his below-the-rim problems. He ended up blocking shots pretty well in college, if not at an elite level. He looks to me like a much better version of Kelly Olynyk on offense, like maybe closer to Nowitzki than Olynyk. I get why Orlando wouldn't draft him. He's not a rim protector, and any big they pick should have that potential. But I wouldn't be upset if they feel his offense is so good that he's worth putting in a rotation with Vuc, Gordon. It really depends on what they think they have in Gordon. I still think AG could end up a star, in which case Kaminsky would be a great guy to have for 20-25 minutes backing up both the 4 and 5. Just a thought, in case Orlando just wants to trade back a couple of picks.