Franchise408

Probably pretty accurate. I think this message board far over values the moves we've made.

Nor am I. I've entirely lost any and all faith in Rob. If I'm proven wrong, and this team makes some noise in the East? So be it, and I will be delighted to eat crow. But barely squeaking in to a 7 or 8 seed won't cut it. We should have been in the playoffs already, but Rob has, and continues to do, exactly nothing during this entire rebuild. Draft young talent, trade them away for role players. Trade for young talent, then trade them away for cap space. Have loads of cap space, and blow it all on more role players who play the same position that you just traded your young talent away for other role players at. It's an endless cycle of spinning our tires in the mud. It took Rob coming on board to show me just how spoiled I was to be a Magic fan up until now.

Whoever it was that told me Biyombo wasn't a max deal, I stand corrected on that statement. However, the point remains he was well overpaid for. How this fanbase complains about Otis over spending on Rashard Lewis, a vital piece to our NBA Finals team, but then thinks the money we spent on a 5 / 8 guy is warranted is beyond me.

He needs to be traded asap simply because we maxed a 5 & 8 guy. The contract is awful.

Agreed. Division winner based on what? I don't see anything that makes us some kind of division contender right now. I don't see us as much better, if at all, than we were last season.

Yes, but spent on what? We basically just blew our entire cap on role players.

I guess if you think trading away our core youth pieces for role players and giving max contracts to bench players is "putting it together", then we have found the fundamental of our disagreement. I don't think that Hennigan is "putting it together". What I see is years and years of acquiring cap space wasted away on bit players that won't significantly improve us, leaving us in the pit of irrelevance for years to come.

Why is that? Oh, maybe because we have a GM that hasn't given them anything to want to talk to.

No, I just don't think that spending $72 million on a 5 / 8 guy is really the kind of move that's gonna put us over.

Agreed. Hennigan has lost the benefit of the doubt from me. Now I will only believe it when I see it. And at this point, I don't believe that I'll see it as long as he's here. We need a GM that's not afraid to make a move to actually bring in talent.

No, I'm not expecting Durant or Horford. Although the original intention was to save up all this cap space to go all in for guys like that and we never even attempted to talk to them. But no, that's no my expectations. My expectations were something. ANYTHING. You said, in the same sentence, we're stacked but no stars. That's kind of contradictory. We have a bunch of role players on our team, but nobody to really take over as the guy. And no Ibaka is not that guy. Gordon has potential, but up to now, that's all he is is potential. We just spent $15 mill on an 11ppg player. Luckily it was only for 1 year. We just spent $72 million on a player that will likely be coming off the bench, unless we move our current best player. Although seeing how we moved Dipo for a role player, we probably will move Vuc for peanuts. I like some of the pieces on our team, as parts of a larger whole. But we don't have anyone close to being THE GUY on this team. We're expecting a bunch of role players to carry us to the post season. Role players who haven't shown they are capable of doing that. We've been stuck in the mud for going on 5 seasons now, the worst stretch in franchise history with no real indication of getting out of it anytime soon.

You're right, we're stacked. I figure the city of Orlando can go ahead and start planning that parade now right? No need for GS to hang their 73 win banner, cuz were about to win 74 AND the title.

There is nothing about our roster that is "stacked"

Hennigan needs to go now. I understand that he inherited the Dwight Howard mess. However, Otis Smith also inherited the Tracy McGrady mess, and by this point in the rebuild, we were on our way to the Finals. Hennigan has done absolutely nothing with this roster in the name of cap space. Now we have it, and there are names out there, and we've done nothing to even enter the conversation. So we have all this cap space. For what? Jody Meeks? We trade away our top young developing talent for a role player in Serge Ibaka, putting him in a position to be our #1 when he's not a #1 player. I am 100% done with Hennigan. Talk bad about Otis all you want, but he took the T-Mac situation and turned us into an NBA Finals team. Hennigan has taken the Dwight Howard situation and run us into the ground into irrelevance. He needs to go. Not in 2017 when we inevitably miss the playoffs again. But yesterday. But since yesterday has passed, he needs to go now. I'm sick of this guy and his awful vision of a rebuild that has us spinning our wheels in the mud.

After this trade, Hennigan has 100% lost my support. He hasn't done ANYTHING since taking over this franchise, we are currently in the longest playoff drought this franchise has ever had since being an expansion team with no hope of getting better anytime soon, and then just traded away one of the few building blocks we had for a freaking role player. All these comments about Otis, at least Otis built a team that got to the Finals and won a game. Hennigan has turned the franchise into utter irrelevance. I'm so f'ing over this guy, he needs to go about 3 seasons ago.

I hesitate to show the YouTube link, due to how gruesome that was. Paul George snaps his leg in Team USA game.

I hope he can recover, but that was pretty brutal.

Or there could be another option, in between "decently lucky" and "unlucky", where perhaps some of our players develop, but the rest of them stagnate in an "okay, but not good enough" area that might be good enough to get into the playoffs, but not good enough to go far, and not simply one key FA away from competing for a title. Which is more accurate to where I think we are with the pieces that we have, if the plan is to develop THIS as our core to supplement with a free agent in a year or 2.

Well I would have drafted Exum instead of Gordon for one. But just because I don't necessarily have a better plan means I can't have an opinion on our rebuild? Well then, I'm glad to know that you never criticize a movie or a music album, unless you're able to get in there and do a better job. I mean, I'm sure you have an extensive Academy Award winning resume to tout everytime you have a criticism with a movie. Oh, and since you're criticizing Otis so heavily... I'd love to see the list of championship teams you've assembled during your career as an NBA GM. As far as what we would have done had we got Okafor instead of Howard, I have no clue, because that's not what happened. I'm sure Otis would have looked a lot better as a GM at the end of his tenure if Dwight Howard didn't want to leave, too. From what I remember, Charlotte wanted Okafor anyways and would have drafted him at #1. You don't seem to remember, but Dwight wasn't a consensus #1 pick. This wasn't the 2nd coming of LeBron James. Many experts felt that Okafor was the pick, as he was more NBA ready than Dwight the project. If you think that LeBron going back to Cleveland WASN'T for marketing and PR, I have another bridge to sell you. You know where he didn't go? You know where wasn't even an option? Milwaukee. Portland. Minnesota. Orlando... Melo is in New York in the first place because of "big market" syndrome. I don't know their exact cap situation, but I don't think they really have the space to go out and get big time free agents, with Melo, Amare, and the remnants of the mess Isiah left. L.A. didn't get anybody big, because they are a trainwreck. But where did their top free agent loss sign with? Oh that's right... Chicago. And they did get Boozer. Miami kept Wade and Bosh. Name me one small market team that had a shot at any legitimate top free agents this year... I think the best was Paul Pierce signing with Washington, and Vince Carter signing with Memphis. And Rudy Gay who re-upped in Sacramento. Who was in the running for all the top name free agents? LeBron - Miami, Lakers, Suns, Cavs - the biggest headline in all of sports Wade - Miami, Chicago Bosh - Miami, Houston Melo - New York, Chicago, Miami, wherever LeBron went Pau - Lakers, Chicago Parsons - Houston, Dallas Amare - New York Kevin Love - OUT of Minnesota Yup... lots of interest in small markets from the top level free agents there. We'll be having a Magic / Timberwolves NBA Finals in no time.

T-Mac wasn't the reason why we sucked, no. But T-Mac himself will admit that he gave up that year, and made it clear he wanted out. To catman, you're right, Otis sucked the last couple years. I never denied that. I liked Otis pre-2010, but you're right, after our ECF exit in 2010, he started getting desperate and that's when **** hit the fan and got ugly. I haven't offered much support for the last couple years, I clearly stated that he suffered the last couple years, but somehow people keep implying that I'm supporting those moves. When Otis got booted, I supported it. That chapter needed to come to an end. Where the difference is, I don't begrudge Otis' entire tenure here, because he was putting together a good team, and DID put together a good team. That, and I'd rather see a GM that "swings for homeruns" than sits on his thumbs and does nothing. Weisbrod as GM was pretty bad. I liked the T-Mac trade, but I hated the trade to bring in Doug Christie. I absolutely hated that guy, I hated that trade. But we ended up moving Francis and Cato for the final pieces necessary needed to get us Rashard, and put us over the top in the East. For that run, I'll always admire Otis, even if he ended on a bad note. Why don't I have high hopes for THIS rebuild? Because we're not doing anything - by design. By design, we are signing and trading for a bunch of middle of the pack players, stocking up on a bunch of middle of the pack draft picks, and tanking out for high draft picks, and not participating heavily in free agency, in the hopes that somehow all these middle of the pack players and draft picks turn into a bunch of all-stars, because hey, San Antonio. All the rhetoric coming from the front office right now I've heard in countless other failed rebuilds throughout all the different major professional sports. Hey, maybe Oladipo, Gordon, and Payton will all turn into perennial all stars, and I can bite my tongue and eat my crow. That'd be awesome. I actually have high hopes for Oladipo. Don't know what to expect yet from Payton. But with Gordon, we essentially drafted a 3/4 with no offensive game - on the hopes that he'll develop an offensive game. And passed up on what was seen as a premiere back court player to do it. I don't mind that we moved guys like Dwight (who forced our hand) and Redick (who was an upcoming free agent) for guys like Vucevic and Harris. But THOSE are the guys that we are attempting to build around. Those are the mid tier players we're bringing in, with all-star caliber hopes. I've watched countless times where a rebuilding team tries to emulate another team's formula - and fails miserably. I'm hearing ad naseum that San Antonio is our model here - but we don't have the luxuries that San Antonio has and had. We don't have our injured David Robinson coming back at full strength after a year of sucking enough to get Tim Duncan. We don't have our "best ever at his position" in Tim Duncan to build around with the Tony Parker's and Manu Ginobili's so that a guy like Khawi Leonard can go off and get an NBA Finals MVP. But somehow, we're expecting San Antonio results??? A lot of my distrust in this rebuild has as much, or moreso to do with the current state of the league as well than it does anything the Magic are or aren't doing. With this current trend of superstars bolting for big markets, I don't see a superstar bolting for Central Florida. And please, spare me Kevin Durant. He's not coming here, even if he DOES leave OKC. I don't see the current state of the league as being one where teams like the Magic can attract big name free agent talent. But, if you're expecting to become long term competitors with a core of Oladipo, Gordon, Payton, Vucevic, Harkless, and Harris... I've got a bridge to sell you. This team CERTAINLY isn't going to compete this year, which is going to be 3 straight years of tanking / lottery. Ben Gordon and Channing Frye aren't the kinds of guys that are going to take us to the next level. Hell, this duo is a downgrade of the vet duo of Afflalo and Nelson that we just got rid of. So yea, unless this front office is able to get off their ass and make something happen, I don't see this team drastically improving for quite awhile. But hey... what's even the point of arguing? Hennigan can do no wrong around here, amirite?

Yes, actually, I did. Hell, trading T-Mac and what we got in return gave me renewed hope. To this day I still see that as one of the best trades this franchise has made. Because we actually bottomed out with T-Mac. It was T-Mac's last year that earned us the #1 pick. We drafted Dwight Howard, and signed Hedo Turkoglu. We immediately traded T-Mac, and the core of that cellar dwelling team to Houston, for Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley, and Kelvin Cato, instantly upgrading our team. Our team was instantly improved following the T-Mac trade than we were with T-Mac. And Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley, and Kelvin Cato, were all the pieces that we used to eventually free up the cap space that brought in Rashard Lewis and put us over the top. We had immediate playoff aspirations the moment we traded T-Mac away, and while it didn't happen for a couple years, we had instant hope, and consistent improvement. The one thing we DIDN'T do was become perpetual cellar dwellers, which we currently are. You're not remembering correctly if you think we got Houston's "scrubs", and that it was with Francis and Mobley that we bottomed out to the #1 pick. We bottomed out before they got here, and it was bringing them in that set us on the path to become contenders less than 5 seasons later.

Because the '09 team had just as many wins, got to the NBA Finals, and won a game? Something that the '95 team didn't do? And yea, there are plenty of GM's out there who spin their wheels and don't make moves in the best interest of the team. Otherwise, there wouldn't be so many perpetual lottery teams out there. Outside of the last year or so, Otis got results. Been a fan since I was about 10, and as long as I've followed basketball, so no, you can't throw out the "newest" or "casual" fan card to try to make yourself feel more important.

Why would I do that? Just because my team is in a down phase and I don't think they are making the proper moves to improve doesn't mean I give up on them. I stick through my team through good and bad. This is such a **** ass response to anyone who doesn't blindly agree with the moves being made by the front office. Just because you disagree with the moves doesn't mean you're not a fan. I sure hope you're right.

Eh, I never hated Otis as much as most around here. Surely, he made some mistakes on the back end of his tenure, but it was all well intentioned. After the Finals run, he lost Turkoglu and needed to make a move to replace him. He brought in Carter to try to fill our biggest weakness in '09, which was missing a slasher that could create his own shot. Vince might not have been that guy anymore at that point in his career, but Otis at least tried. Then Rashard fell off, and we basically had to retool from the beginning. Then of course Dwight happened. Otis didn't handle the last couple seasons properly, but I really don't begrudge him. He built the best team this franchise has ever seen, and then **** hit the fan. I agree. I don't particularly get what we're doing. We get rid of Nelson and Afflalo in the name of cap space, and then use that cap space on downgrades in Gordon and Frye. We're sitting on a bunch of cap space but not using it on upgrades for the team. I mean, I don't want us to sign free agents for the sake of signing free agents, because that's not going to get us anywhere and only hinder future moves, but I don't get the purpose of getting rid of the vets we do have only to sign downgrades. This team is spinning it's wheels. This team is nowhere close to a playoff team, and I don't foresee us being close anytime soon. I've truly never felt this hopeless about a Magic rebuild as I do with the Hennigan rebuild.

Sure, theoretically that works, but my concern is that I don't think we have a starting 5 of borderline all-stars, or "really good" players, future or otherwise.