Murphy13

Again whether he developed afterward is immaterial to the conversation. The point is that he was mismanaged along with everyone else and not put in a position to succeed, which I believe we agree falls on Hennigan et al. The caps was to emphasize the breakdown in our management, once again unrelated to Payton specifically. Arguing over 3 years, which is what I said and 3 1/2 seasons is pure semantics. Your very short list of players are all players that were picked ahead of Payton with the exception of SGA who isn’t even a point guard. If you’re trying to make an argument that there are younger pgs that are better than Payton then well done no argument, that doesn’t change my argument that it’s rare to expect that level of success from a draft pick that was barely in the lottery, much less at all. What I said is it would take rare players to do that and you picked one of the most dynamic players in the league and a non pg as your argument. You basically made mine for me. All this is for naught as I believe we're on the same page with regard to the real problem here which is the gross management over multiple regimes.

It comes down to consistency between the two. TH has shown the ability to adapt to different dynamics, though he’s been forced to do so given his movement around the league. Perhaps AG would benefit some from that as well. At this point even the most ardent Magic fan would have a tough time justifying AG over TH.

It’s all good, like the discourse! It would surprise you to learn that Randle is a better defender than AG now, and it’s not really close. Nobody has gotten more chances in more positions with more coaches under more circumstances than AG, he’s just out of excuses. He was mismanaged at times just like everyone else it seems.

Hindsight being what it is makes it too easy today as there are several options but the no brainer at the time was Julius Randle.

There has yet to be a solution, if that’s a testament onto Payton in your eyes then that’s up to you. The reality is that very very few competent point guards are drafted and become legitimate game changers within three years, which is all we had him for. You say there’s plenty out there but there isn’t. Whether he ultimately became one later or not is immaterial, you don’t give up on pg’s after three years if you want to DEVELOP a good one. That, as you correctly ascertained, is on Hennigan. AG was a worse choice that year than Payton though. To me it’s not about Payton, it’s about the handling from the FO and the general fans misunderstanding of the learning curve of the position.

He’s a solid #2 point guard. He’s not a franchise saver which is what we needed at the time.

25+ years for him to realize the only reason he got drafted and plays basketball is because he’s a super athletic 6’8”. He doesn’t know how to play the game.

Elfrid was never the problem. Our expectations were too high because it had been so long since we had a real pg.

Firing Hennigan was a smart move, he was in over his head and had no backbone. He couldn’t commit to anything.

The problem is that’s a lot of salary to trade. The teams that would need them are contenders that likely aren’t under the cap so we can’t get relief and Nik is actually quite talented so he’s going to get a haul. If we trade those guys it’ll have to be a three team with a contender and an under the cap team.

If we’re bad this season I think it’s our turn to luck into #1 pick again.

He’s a bust and frankly didn’t look that good out of college.

They run Randle from the wing outside in, will need someone mobile with length to guard him. Probably Gordon but that’s a tough cover for anyone if Randle plays like he has.

When I got out of work we were down 96-87 with 7:34 left. When I got home we had won by 7. This team is furious.

I don’t know if I’m late to the party on this but I’m on the Cole Anthony train.

Not me. They’re trying to make things happen, let’s see how it goes. Worst case it doesn’t work and they have a trade-able contract.

I guess I was operating under the pretense that Gordon was a multi positional player, that’s at least what the sentiment is here. If other teams are just looking at him as a PF then he has little value, not that much is needed in S&T’s. I don’t see it working out either, curious, what’s wrong with Hayward as a person?

I wish we could facilitate a sign and trade with Boston and swap Gordon’s. It feels like everyone would win.

I hate myself for being away so long, I haven’t paid attention to the NBA or draft stuff all year. At the top of my wish list is a shooter to put next to Fultz. Are there any legit 3&D players available in our zone?

I’m jonesing for some basketball. There are rumors my daughter’s exposure team will be starting back up after 5/4 here.

While I get that the highest paid player should get most of the attention when we’re playing poorly he isn’t the reason why we’re bad. He’s one of the only true starters on this team. We aren’t good because we aren’t talented. Isaac and Fultz are the only long term pieces here. We needed a full scale shakeup at the deadline with Isaac out but our front office sat on their hands. It’s reprehensible.

I get what you’re saying but the most replaceable guys in the nba are the 6’8”-6’9” tweeners. That doesn’t have much bearing on the point your trying to make, just a separate observation.

They have a nice core.

He had 17/11/15 in his last game, he’s just playing with more fire. Consistency was the only thing lacking from his game.