TrueBlueDrew

Fournier single handedly lost is the game. - drive for offensive foul when Vuc had the mismatch. - Sat in watched as Forbes drills a three instead of contesting with under a minute left - Rushed a 3pt shot early in the shot clock - played hero ball and tried to make a layup over 3 people. I want him gone so bad.

TWolves just cut Allen Crabbe. Any interest in signing? He was pretty good before he was injured a few years back. Maybe, like Fultz and hopefully Ennis, a low stress environment might help him recover and give us some offense off the bench?

meant for the other thread

Yeah but you have Dinwiddie, Harris, LaVert, and Prince. That's a lot of pieces to fit around Irving/KD/Allen. I mean, maybe they pull a Boston and just hold all the pieces together. Maybe you throw Harris/Dinwiddie in that group? Irving/Dinwiddie/Harris/KD/Allen? Again, just trying to think of pieces for the Magic to slide in at SG.

What are the odds that Brooklyn lets Joe Harris go if someone throws a heavy contract at him? With Kyrie and KD coming back next season, they'll probably move Dinwiddie to the SG spot and possibly move either Harris or Prince to the bench. If we could promise him a starting position, maybe he'd take less money in Orlando? Fultz, Harris, Issac, Gordon, Vuc? Just trying to think of potential replacements for Fournier.

Yeah, I agree. I would love to have MCW be some of the energy and grit off the bench. He's okay getting 10-20 minutes a game too. I really hope the Magic don't extend Fournier (unless they plan on doing a sign & trade). We need scoring on the bench poorly. There is a reason Ross is having to drop 31 and we barely beat the TWolves...because our offense is not consistent enough.

According to HoopsHype, here is what our depth chart looks like PG - Fultz, DJ SG - Fournier, MCW, Iwundu, BJ Johnson (2W) SF - Ennis, Ross, Frazier, Vic Law (2W) PF - AG, Clark, Aminu (+), Issac (+) C - Vuc, Bamba, Birch Also according to HoopsHype, our team could look drastically different next season. Coming off the books this year - DJ, MCW, Iwundu, Amile Jefferson, Gary Clark, CJ Watson (??), Josh Magette, BJ, Vic...and potentially Ennis and Fournier and Frazier depending on how the team/player options shake out. That is roughly 34 mil coming off the books if the players don't opt in. As long as the Magic commit to Fultz/Isaac/Gordon/Bamba as the future...I'll be fine. I'm so ready for Bamba to get his shot at being a starter. He may not be ready but his minutes definitely need to increase. He seems to play better as his minutes go up.

Hey if Evan picks up his player option for next year. How long can it be until we trade him?

I'm an eternal optimist...I understand that But I think we're going to win out the rest of February. I think the team started to look good before the break, the sham of a dunk contest will fuel Gordon for the rest of the season. I think we steal the 7 seed from the Nets. I think Vuc starts to get into a groove and we play well to finish the season.

So...I understand the Hawks suck. But that seemed like a good high energy game from us. Also balanced probably the way it needs to be. 20+ for a Gordon/Vuc/Fournier/Ross and good contributions from the bench. That’s hopefully a blueprint for a return to last seasons form. When DJ comes back, hopefully they will just help all the more.

I agree but I also dont think this year is the year to consider that. Too much unpredictability with injuries. But if that time comes itll be hard to move away from a proven coach to an unknown. You could likely end up with a Luke Walton rather than a Kenny Atkinson

Alright, here is the look ahead. Currently 22-31. How are we going to finish? I'm predicting 37-45 2-10 -- vs Hawks 2-12 -- vs Pistons 2-21 -- vs Mavs 2-24 -- vs Nets (away) 2-26 -- vs Hawks (away) 2-28 -- vs Twolves 2-29 -- vs Spurs (away) 3-2 -- vs Trailblazers 3-4 -- vs Heat (away) 3-6 -- vs TWolves (away) 3-8 -- vs Rockets (away) 3-10 -- vs Memphis (away) 3-12 -- vs Bulls 3-15 -- vs Hornets 3-17 -- vs Pistons (away) 3-19 -- vs Cavs 3-21 -- vs Kings 3-23 -- vs Nets (away) 3-25 -- vs Pacers 3-27 -- vs Nets 3-29 -- vs Pelicans 4-1 -- vs Hornets 4-3 -- vs Celtics (away) 4-5 -- vs 76ers (away) 4-8 -- vs Knicks (away) 4-10 -- vs Celtics 4-11 -- vs Pacers (away) 4-13 -- vs Bulls (away) 4-15 -- vs Raptors

I realize that you can take upbeat music and put it behind the best plays of someones year and make them look like they're amazing. However... I can't help but ask what would our year look like if Fultz, Isaac, and AG had a year together? I think we'd be in a very different position both in wins/losses and team/fan morale. I think there is still hope. We just need to realize who we are. We have to transition to a fast pace team now that we have a fast paced point guard.

With Lebron going to the Lakers, lets look at the major players in the East now that he is gone. East K. Irving (BOS) G. Antetokounmpo (MIL) B. Simmons (PHI) J. Wall (WAS) J. Emiid (PHI) K. Porzingis (NYK) D. Derozan (TOR) G. Hayward (BOS) V. Oladipo (IND) B. Griffin (DET) Other honorable mentions: K. Lowry (TOR), K. Love (CLE), D. Wade (MIA), B. Beal (WAS) Best Players on teams not mentioned: K. Walker (CHA), D. Russell (NYN), L. Markkenen (CHI), A. Gordon (ORL), J. Collins (ATL) West L. James (LAL) K. Durant (GSW) J. Harden (HOU) S. Curry (GSW) A. Davis (NOP) K. Leonard (SAS) R. Westbrook (OKC) P. George (OKC) D. Cousins (NOP) K. Thompson (GSW) Other honorable mentions: D. Green (GSW), D. Lillard (POR), C. McCollum (POR), D. Mitchell (UTH), L. Aldridge (SAS), K. Towns (MIN), A. Wiggins (MIN) Best Players on Teams not mentioned: N. Jokic (DEN), T. Harris (LAC), D. Fox (SAC), D. Smith Jr. (DAL), M. Gasol (MEM), D. Booker (PHX)

Just your casual update 18 months later: East: Added Durant, Tobias Harris, and Jimmy Butler... Still have Irving, Giannis, Simmons, Embiid, Dipo, Kemba, Lavine, Gordon, Siakem, Tatum, Still there but not the same: Wall, Griffin, and Hayward New Stars: Young West: added Derozan and Porzingis... Still have James, Harden, Curry, Davis, Leonard, George, Westbrook, Lillard, McCollum, Mitchell, Towns, Russell, Thompson, Jokic, Fox, Booker New Stars: Morant, Williamson, Luka, Ingram?, SGA? Still so much promise in the West, its frustrating.

Buy out options? Tristan Thompson Isaiah Thomas Darren Collison - F.A. Marvin Williams Taj Gibson Bobby Portis Reggie Bullock Wayne Ellington Elfrid Payton Evan Turner Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Bismack Biyombo John Henson Matthew Dellavedova Langston Galloway Allen Crabbe Tyler Johnson Brandon Knight Solomon Hill Courtney Lee Yogi Ferrell

Yeah I agree. Chicago is confusing. Feels like they've been floating without a direction longer than everyone else has. Ever since they got rid of Rose/Butler, they haven't been the same. I'm honestly think we're not in an awful position. I'm less optimistic now than I was back when we had the Dipo/Harris/Gordon combo. I loved that core. But I really like a healthy Isaac and how Fultz has looked so far this season. So I just think management has to decide to move on from Evan and Vuc. Then rebuild I don't think Evan will take a bench role after the season he is having.

Yeah. I agree. I think that's the good part and bad part. We are a middle of the pack team, so there are teams in a worse spot than we are but some of them feel like they're in a better spot than us because they have their star. I'm not even going to include the Warriors cause they'll be back to a top 5 team next year when everyone is healthy. First, you have the promising (just because they have their star): Pelicans - Williamson/Ingram/Ball Hawks - Young (Capella was a good add, Hunter/Reddish good core) Grizzlies - Morant/JJJ/Brooks Suns - Booker/Ayton/Oubre TWolves - Towns/Russell Kings - Fox/Hield Second, you have the frustrating: Trailblazers, Spurs, Pistons, Bulls Third, you have the sad: Cavs, Knicks, Hornets, Wizards I think we are somewhere between the promising and the frustrating because if we have a healthy Fultz/Isaac/Gordon...I would like that foundation more than just about any other team on the promising list (other than the Pelicans, it'll be interesting to see how Ingram continues to grow after Zion comes back). However, we're frustrated because it feels like we're built around Fournier/Vuc which places us in the second group.

Yeah but I think after the season we had...we HAD to resign Vuc. If you don’t want a toxic culture like the Knicks, you have to start rewarding players who do well. So when Vuc and Ross had great years, I think you had to resign just as a show of confidence and hopefully communicate to the rest of the league, we reward players who play well. I think it’s a different case with Fournier because we’ve already done it with Vuc. I’m bummed we didn’t trade him but we will see how the offseason will workout. I will officially be upset if we resign Fournier to some ridiculous contract. I also want to see Bamba get more minutes in the back half of this season. I know Vuc is one of our best offensive pieces but he’s going through an awful slump, we should let the 2nd year kid get a chance to prove he’s worth investing in. We need to commit to either one of them, trade the other, and have Birch be the backup

I wouldn’t say that the NBA is going full Houston. I think there are more big men in the NBA than people realize, but you have the Warriors who played small and everyone (particularly Houston cause they were obsessed with beating them) started copying. Everyone 6’9 and up: Bucks — Giannis / B Lopez / R Lopez / Bender / Illyasova / Wilson Raptors — Ibaka / Gasol / Siakem / Boucher / Hernandez / Celtics — Kanter / Tacko / Piorier (Theis is 6’8) Heat — Bam / Olynyk / Leonard / Alexander / Pacers — Turner / Sabonis / Leaf / Bitadze 76ers — Horford / Embiid / Simmons / O’Quinn Nets — Allen / Claxton / Durant / Jordan Magic — Vuc/ Isaac / Bamba / Birch Bulls — Carter Jr / Felicio/ Gafford / Kornet / Markkanen / Pistons — Griffin / Henson / Maker / Wood Wizards — Bertans / Bryant / Mahinmi / Pasecniks / Wagner / Williams Hornets — Batum / Hernangomez / McDaniels / Spalding / Zeller (Biz is 6’8) Knicks — Portis / Robinson / Gibson / Wooten (Randle is 6’8) Hawks — Capella / Dedmon / Collins / Fernando / Jones / Labissiere Cavs — Drummond / Bolden / Thompson / Zizic / Wade (Love is 6’8, Nance 6’7) Lakers — Cousins / Davis / Howard / James / McGee / Antetokounmpo Clippers — Zubac / Kabengele Nuggets — Jokic / Bol / Porter Jr / Vonleh / Plumlee Rockets — Chandler / Caboclo / Hartenstein Jazz — Gobert / Bradley / Davis Thunder — Adams / Gallinari / Hervey / Noel / Muscala / Mavs — Cayley-Stein / Kleber / Boban / Porzingis / Powell Grizzlies — Valanciunas / JJJ / Dieng / Anderson Trailblazers — Nurkic / Whiteside / Swanigan / Gabriel / Collins / Brown Spurs — Aldridge / Lyles / Eubanks / Poeltl Pelicans — Hayes / Okafor / Favors / Melli (Williamson is 6’6) Suns — Ayton / Baynes / Kaminsky / Saric Kings — Bagley / Bjelica / Giles / Holmes / Len Timberwolves — Towns / Vanderbilt / Reid Hernangomez / Warriors — Chriss/ Looney Obviously some of these guys don’t get any minutes or are two way players but the League has a decent number of big men. I just think most teams focus on 6’7 and under and it seems like our focus has been 6’8 and up.

2017 draft -- we actually ended up with #1 and #6 thanks to Philly Who else from that draft would you like to have other than Isaac? Donovan Mitchell? Maybe we keep #25 and draft Kuzma? In the second round, I would say Iwundu is probably the best player from that 2nd round group other than Dillion Brooks 2018 draft -- at the time, we didn't know that we would get Fultz I had my eyes on SGA but other players out of that group that seem to be good - Mikal Bridges, DiVincenzo could be a capable backup, Shamet is better than I thought. In the second round, Diallo is probably the best player post- Frazier. Devonte Graham is turning out to be a steal of a 2nd round pick. 2019 draft It's still early but I don't see anyone past-Okeke that I am super thrilled about. Okeke is a mystery though, could turn out to be a steal or a waste of a draft.

Let's consider this: Draft Picks: Issac (#6 - 2017) Anžejs Pasečņiks (#25 - 2017, traded to Philly for OKC 1st in 2020, 2nd in 2020) Wes Iwundu (#33 - 2017) Ivan Robb (#35 - 2017, trade to Memphis for 2nd in 2018) Bamba (#6 - 2018) Frazier (#35 - 2018) Jarred Vanderbilt (#41 2018, trade to Denver for #43 pick Justin Jackson in G-League and 2019 2nd) Okeke (#16 - 2019) Is there a player chosen after one of our picks that would be better for the Magic? Consider the time, would you know "Player X" would turn into what they are? Transactions: 2017-2018 Signed Shelvin Mack (July 2017 - 2 yr 12 mil) Signed Jonathan Simmons (July 2017 - 3 yr 20 mil) Signed Mo Speights (July 2017 - 1 yr 2.1 mil) Signed Aaron Afflalo (July 2017 - 1 yr 2.3 mil) Signed Khem Birch (July 2017 - 2 yr 2.1 mil) Signed Payne (August 2017 - 2 way) Signed Artis (October 2017 - 2 way) Traded Payton to Phoenix for a 2018 2nd round pick (Feb 2018) Signed Purvis (March 2018 - 2 way) Waived Mack (June 2018) 2018-2019 Let Speights, Hezonja, Artis, Afflalo enter FA (July 2018) Signed Mo Bamba (July 2018 - 3 yr 16 mil) Signed Melvin Frazier (July 2018 - 2 yr 2.4 mil) Signed Isaiah Briscoe (July 2018 - 4 yr 6 mil) Re-Signed Aaron Gordon (July 2018 - 4 yr 84 mil) Traded Bizmack Biyombo and two 2nd round picks for J. Grant and Mozgov (July 2018) Traded Purvis to OKC for Dakari Johnson + Cash and then flipped Johnson, Tyler Johnson, and a TPE to Memphis for Jarell Martin + Cash Signed Jefferson (August 2018 - 2 way) Traded Simmons, 2019 2nd, conditional 2020 1st, and TPE to Philly for Fultz (February 2018) Signed MCW (March 2019) Waived Briscoe (April 2019) 2019-2020 Let Martin, Grant, Jefferson, Caupain enter FA (July 2019) Waived Mozgov (July 2019) Resigned Vucevic (July 2019 - 4 yr 100 mil) Resigned Ross (July 2019 - 4 yr 54 mil) Signed Aminu (July 2019 - 3 yr 29 mil) Resigned Birch (July 2019 - 2 yr 6 mil) Resigned MCW (July 2019 - 1 yr 2 mil) Signed Josh Magette (July 2019 - 2 way) Signed Jefferson (July 2019 - 2 way, November 2019 - 2 yr 3.2 mil) Signed BJ Johnson (November 2019 - 2 way) Cut Josh Magette Signed Gary Clark Traded a 2020 2nd for James Ennis (February 2020) So here is my question...what moves have they done that have warrented distrust other than they haven't done anything splashy other than Fultz? I think they've found good use out of players that others have written off -- Fultz, Briscoe, MCW, Birch. I think we have a solid foundation if Issac/Fultz can stay healthy and Gordon keeps improving. We need to be careful not to give up too quickly just because we didn't draft a bonafide star. It's not awful but it's also not flashy, however none of the moves listed above are horrible moves like previous FO management has made. So, let's practice a little patience.

I think we're expecting too much too soon. I realize we've been in rebuild mode for like 10 years now, but they've only been in this position for 2.5 years. That is not a lot of time considering the number of poor contracts/poison culture they had to wade through. I think they've rebuilt to a solid foundation with Fultz/AG/Issac, you have those necessary vets like Ross/Evan/DJ/Vuc who are helping and young guys you hope to develop into something like Bamba/Iwundu/Okeke. However, the problem is we are stuck in this mediocre state and don't have a rising star (ex: Ja Morant) to be excited about, unless you are on the Fultz-Hype train. I think the management hasn't necessarily made bad moves and the chances they've taken with Fultz have paid off...and hopefully Okeke too. They just are at a place now where they have to make a decision on committing to a young foundation or building around the vets and making splash (chips in) type moves. They haven't done that yet. The patient game is a frustrating game. I think we have to grow in patience here. I don't think we're trending negatively unless we just refuse to move on from Fournier/Vuc...then that's poor management. Right now, they're just examining the circumstances and making the smartest decisions possible. They obviously didn't like any trade at the deadline that wouldn't jeopardize what they've already built.

Just in case you were wondering about the free agents this summer https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/

Joel / Burke for Vuc / DJ Seems legit