The Can Opener

quote: Originally posted by ThuglifeJ:Knowin Vince there is somehow a chance he could be do this and be 'reborn.' but then again knowing anything about life, his best time possible for him to ever step up and be reborn was last season...there were plenty of reasons for him to be 'reborn'.. so ya his best chance/time to see a flashback vc was prolly last season. which came inconsistently. but then again VC doesnt think normally and he loves to do what you dont want him to do...hard to explain No, that makes perfect sense. Everyone wanted him to shot up for the playoffs and not prove everyone right about him being an all time loser and choker. Here is how he responded for the playoffs: 15.5 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.3 apg 40% FG, 23% 3pt, 82% Ft 34 mpg Nearly every statistic decreased from his regular season totals(at least he stepped up his rebounding) 16.6 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 3.1 apg 42% FG, 36% 3pt, 84% FT 30 mpg He also averaged more fouls and turnovers in the playoffs. At best I think he could be the teams' 3rd or 4th option at this point and has a lot more value to the team as an expiring contract rather than an actual player.

quote: Originally posted by ThisIsTheYear:When has Boozer faded away in the playoffs? I assume you're referring to the series against LA, then? I'll take fading to the tune of 16/13 against a Bynum/Gasol frontline. Well it might be just be a coincidence as to why he's struggled in the playoffs(I think the Jazz played the Lakers the last 3 years in the playoffs), but yeah I frequently remember him not coming through in big moments of the game. Doesn't make much sense to me to shift our PF who struggles against the bigger line ups to another who has the same struggle. Maybe it's just me but if we are going to shift our play style to a traditional PF I want one who can play on the low block effectively,be able to stretch out for a jumpshot and be an intimidating force of defense. Boozer is a better rebounder than Shard no question, but they are both primarily jump shooters.

We already have a star who fades in big moments of the playoffs, keep Boozer as far away as possible from this team. Hell I remember one season(09?) Kyle Korver blocked more shots than Boozer did. Bosh, and it's not even close. I'd rather keep VC's expiring and see what could be had at the deadline than offer Boozer a huge contract.

Big disagree.I believe Bynum does have a softer touch around the rim but everything he gets is off rebounds or someone finding him under the rim. Rarely if ever do they let him post up with his back to the basket and run through him. While were on the the topic Gasol has a much more refined offensive game than Dwight for sure.

I don't think its so much important that this team makes changes, its more so on the development of Dwight. I am in firm belief the team goes as he goes and until he can dominate on the offensive end like he does on the defense this team won't win a ring. Of course if the Magic can land one of the superstars that helps too.

quote: Jameer Nelson is a talented player, but he is not a good PG. He is more suited for SG. How often does he dribble dribble dribble the whole shot clock, and then jack up a shot himself without a single pass. I don't know if it's because he doesn't trust his teammates, he doesn't trust his passing ability, or what it is. That doesn't happen all that much in reality, and here are some statistics from the course of the season to give you a better idea: Jameer Nelson shot clock usage 0-10 38% of attempts, 18% assisted, .53% eFG% 11-15 28% of attempts, 18% assisted, .56% eFG% 16-20 20% of attempts, 49% assisted, .52% eFG% 21+ 13% of attempts, 37% assisted, .35% efG% So you can see if he takes nearly 60% of his shots early in the shot clock and at a pretty efficient rate. When its later in the shot clock he takes roughly 33% of his shots is assisted nearly half the time, meaning the ball wasn't in his hands nearly as much you claim, not is he frivolously wasting positions.

quote: Originally posted by VC_Fan: quote: Originally posted by SOWHATDETROIT:Our team would have been ok keeping courtney lee and Rafer alston. The Hedo situation made things extremely complicated but Otis did what he could to put a good team out there but vice just doesnt know how to create shots for his teammates. Ball movement was non existent in that series To a certain extent that's true, but it is not the responsibility of the SG to create shots for his teammates. That is the PGs responsiblity. Jameer Nelson prefers to dribble the ball around for 15-18 seconds before jacking up a shot himself. You do know it is possible to defend your boy without taking shots at one of the cornerstones of this franchise right?

quote: Originally posted by Lewis4thewin: To be fair we don't know what we can expect from Gay in the playoffs, but really anything is probably better than what VC gave us.

quote: Originally posted by ThuglifeJ: quote: Originally posted by Miller4Prez64:Gay has no playmaking abilities, but Vince does? If Vince had playmaking abilities we would be talking about whether we wanted LA or Phoenix in the Finals right now. lol, you just rip everyone with no logic or reasoning it's so obnoxious. But I'll say VC's playmaking in Orlando was poor in the playoffs, but for real he wasnt even asked to be making plays. It was clear Stan wanted Jameer to try to orchestrate the team, which he did so sometimes. Vince would need the ball more than after every 5 Jameer plays in order to be making any plays. Stan wanted VC to just score for the most part when he gets his chance. But really Vince did not take more than 15 shots I believe all series. He was never really involved or asked to be a big part. I'm just saying fact is that Gay dishes out 1 or 2 assists a game, that would be his resume before coming to Orlando. Vince dished out 5 assists each game before coming to Orlando but who knows Gay might be a playmaker deep down I'm just saying he doesnt show that at all yet. I think VC wasn't asked to be a playmaker because he couldn't make plays. So many of his passes were low, out of bounds, into the backcourt, or straight into a defender's hands. I think the general sentiment is that Gay wouldn't be needed to be the teams playmaker,just someone who will relentlessly attack the rim and take some pressure off of Dwight(what VC was supposed to be). You said yourself the team is more comfortable with Jameer running the show. Sure Gay has a lot of room to improve, so does Dwight. But VC is only going to get worse.

The problem with VC is that if his shot isn't falling he is worthless. He loses the bounce in his step, stops attacking the rim, makes errant passes, and his defense becomes even worse. He can't stay in front of Pierce or follow Ray around screens. Most of the time on the court he is a liability on both offense and defense. So far all he is doing is proving all his haters and critics right. The pressure is on and he is wilting. I have not given up on him, and as long as he wears a Magic jersey I will have faith he can turn it around. But the way he is playing is unacceptable and if this team has championship aspirations he needs to find a way to get going.

quote: Originally posted by UBBALLER8: quote: Originally posted by jshann:Let's counter Simmons' @CelticsChants Twitter idea with our own. Come on Magic Fans, go to: http://www.twitter.com/@O_Rena_Chants and follow and submit your ideas, the more the better. We need to give our guys the best home court advantage they've ever had This adds to the discussion greatly. Thank you for posting, come again. Because you're adding such great insight, right?

quote: Originally posted by celtsfan:Wish I had a dime for each post that predicted Magic in 5 this week. Think the old geezers have a chance in this series? Besides a little needling, I will say that the word "rust" came to mind with the Magic. They weren't ready physically or emotionally. You have to get to your battle stations when you play this Celtics team, and all I saw was Howard in Clark Kent bits. That Nelson is a tough bugger though, and Reddick has improved a lot. Where Lewis was is anyone's guess. I wasn't one of those who had the Magic in 5(I said 6 actually), but you do realize the Magic could still win in 5? Its not likely but I think its a little early to be getting so smug.

quote: Originally posted by VC_Fan: quote: Better numbers? From a quick glance at career statistics: Kobe: 25.1 ppg, 5 rpg, 4.8 apg, 1.4 spg, .7 bpg 44.7 FG%, 33.3% 3FG, 81% FT 184 games,164 started 39.3 VC: 24.5 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.8 apg, 1.4 spg, .8 bpg 41.7% FG, 31.3% 3FG, 78.7% FT 49 games, 49 started 41.2 mpg WOW! Reading comprehension seems to be lost around here. I said PRIOR TO THIS SEASON. Then you go up and bring up numbers that include this season. Do people even read posts before responding? quote: The numbers are virtually the same, except Kobe is more efficient and a notably better defender. So Vince averages more rebounds, more blocks, and the same number of steals as per YOUR numbers, yet you're saying the numbers show that Kobe is a "notably better defender"? Which numbers are these? quote: Not to mention Kobe has played in over 3 times the amount of playoff games than VC has This is in no way remotely related to anything I said. I said Vince was averaging more points, rebounds and assists per game in the playoffs prior to this season. quote: has had more sustained and consistent production. If you want to say he has more "sustained" production fine, but if you want to say he has more consistent production, you have to show numbers that prove it. Does he (Kobe) have less year-to-year variance in playoff PER for example? If he does, prove it. Show your calculations. Don't just make baseless statements. quote: He has gone deeper than VC ever has and has done it on bigger stages with much more pressure. Again, nothing to do with anything I said. quote: You're attempting to skew the numbers and ignore the body of their work respectively. Which numbers did I "attempt to skew". Be specific. That's absolute BS. I said that he was average more points, rebounds, and assists in the playoffs prior to this season. How is that "skewing the numbers". What I made was a statement of fact. quote: This argument is so one sided I can't believe I justified it with an actual response. Believe me, no one asked you to. You attempted to skew them by not including this current post season run, but have no problem including Kobe's stats from when he wasn't even a starter which weigh his numbers down far more than VC's this year. I said consistent because Kobe doesn't go 3-4 years without a playoffs appearance, and his shooting percentages reflect a more consistent player, how you misinterpret that I do not know. Steals and rebounds don't equate to being a good or bad defender, merely part of the equation. Kobe just made his 9th 1st team all defense, how many times has VC even sniffed 3rd team? Kobe has 4 rings and counting, VC is being carried to his first conference finals, there is no comparison in pedigree. You want to talk about "baseless claims" yet your only evidence is selective stats of their respective careers.

quote: Originally posted by VC_Fan: quote: Originally posted by The Can Opener:Kobe has aged far more gracefully than Carter, and anyone who thinks there is a reasonable comparison between VC and Kobe in the playoffs should be taken out back and shot. Kobe is so far ahead of VC, and its not really close. Entering this season, VC had better playoff numbers than Kobe. That is not my opinion, that is fact. I even gave the numbers that proved it. He averaged more points, more assists, and more rebounds. Anyone who disagrees with that should be shot. Those numbers are not my opinion. Better numbers? From a quick glance at career statistics: Kobe: 25.1 ppg, 5 rpg, 4.8 apg, 1.4 spg, .7 bpg 44.7 FG%, 33.3% 3FG, 81% FT 184 games,164 started 39.3 VC: 24.5 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.8 apg, 1.4 spg, .8 bpg 41.7% FG, 31.3% 3FG, 78.7% FT 49 games, 49 started 41.2 mpg The numbers are virtually the same, except Kobe is more efficient and a notably better defender. Not to mention Kobe has played in over 3 times the amount of playoff games than VC has and has had more sustained and consistent production. He has gone deeper than VC ever has and has done it on bigger stages with much more pressure. You're attempting to skew the numbers and ignore the body of their work respectively. This argument is so one sided I can't believe I justified it with an actual response.

Kobe has aged far more gracefully than Carter, and anyone who thinks there is a reasonable comparison between VC and Kobe in the playoffs should be taken out back and shot. Kobe is so far ahead of VC, and its not really close.