Magicman28

quote: Originally posted by DarkoHero: quote: Originally posted by fan for too long:I can't understand why most of you are saying that Battie is more consistent. I have gone over the games and Battie is just as a inconsistent scorer and rebounder. Battie is also not capable of double figures in scoring and rebounds as Darko is. Darko is a better defender and shot blocker. So why do you think that Battie is better? Here is my take on the matter. Darko has more potential than Battie and then if he has, you assume that he should get a double double every night. While you assume that Battie is just an average big and what he gets is the most you can expect. This is all about expectations. You expect more of Darko and are mad when he doesn't produce like you think he should. Darko has been doing what he can playing out of position. He is a forward trying to play center. Of course Brian Hill does not want him to play his natural face up position for whatever reason. His nature is to play away from the basket and not down low. He is not a post up player and he is being forced to do just that. But still all you Darko haters expect him to play consistent at a position which is unnatural to him. I would like for Darko to be starting at whatever position that the moron of a coach wants over Battie, the numbers bear the facts that Darko is better even though he plays out of position. Also what I wonder is that the organization wants Darko's numbers to be low so they don't have to pay him a big contract next year. If I was Darko I would be wondering the same thing. Great post. So answer us, Darko haters, how is Battie more consistant, and is that consistancy better than Darko's inconsistancy? Honestly, Darko's off nights are better than Battie's "on nights." Well, yeah if your talking about the box score but Battie does more things consistently that don't show up in the box score then Darko does. I know Darko adjusts shots and stuff but its other things. Like for example, laterally moving quick enough. Sometimes, Darko gets lost and moves late. Battie keeps his hands up. Its an old fundamental that all high schools drill their players. Battie does it consistently. Darko sometimes gets a little to comfortable and keeps his hands low. Pick and roll situations...Battie handles them like a pro. Darko sometimes gets lost and gets blown by. Battie also has a more killer instinct. Darko, not so much. Its the little things that Batties does more.

Personally, I don't know if I want VC here. I rather see JJ get the starting spot in all honestly and spend more time reevaluating that point guard and starting PF spot. Jameer hasn't done anything to keep his name as the starter imo and the point guard position is one of the most important positions in the game.

Travis will walk. Jameer? I dunno. I think that position will be closely evaluated this off season. Arroyo is for sure to go. Darko? I'm not to confident in. He really hasn't taken hold of that starting PF spot and kept it. Theres question about his heart. I wouldn't be surprised if we signed and traded him.

I was watching Jameer and this guy focuses more on the guy with the ball then the person hes guarding. Its why guys are throwing up 3 point shots on us. He was guarding Fisher and everytime he would focus on the guy who had the ball while Fisher would get open somewhere far from Jameer. Jameer would just lose him. He just doesn't have the mental capacity to play defense. I don't think Keyon is the long term answer. He did play more minutes then Jameer. I think Keyon showed everyone what this team needs. A defensive minded, pass FIRST point guard. Now, I'm not saying keyon is a legit point guard but he looked for his teammates FIRST. That point guard also needs to be able to shoot. I know Dooling can get hot. We'll see how this plays out.

quote: Originally posted by MilitaryMagic:Why is everyone praising Otis for finally coming out against his team? He's only making points that have been floating in this forum for months and that have been floating in the media for weeks now. Heck, John Hollinger of ESPN fame made this point about leadership like 2 weeks ago. All Otis did was open his eyes one day a week ago and realize the whole world is coming down on him. He wouldn't be vocalizing himself if he wasn't being pressed to by the fans and the media. Too much friggin' rope, Otis gives everything and everyone too much **** rope. I agree somewhat. Watching Jameer laughing, that should've been taken care of the first time it happened, that night in the locker room. It really shocked me too because the old Brian Hill would've saw that and would've went nuts. I think Otis assumed Hill would've ripped his team about it (which is BHill's job) by now. Imo BHill is to scared now to get angry and rip his team. Otis imo just said "iight, you all aren't gonna say anything? No one is gonna be mad about this mess? I AM and I'LL SAY SOMETHING."

Play JJ. Thats all we need to do. Unleash the dogs.

``I

Yeah, this meeting was his shakeup. We'll see. I'm personally tired of watching GHill at SG. Its like watching Juwan and Drew playing the 3. Its sickening. I'm tired of watching Jameer laugh all the time. If he continues this, he should be benched. I'm sick of Arroyo. BENCH HIM AND NEVER PLAY HIM AGAIN. This is the 2nd meeting isn't it? How many of these are we gonna do until they figure out that they don't have the right formula out there? GHill IS NOT a SG. Jameer is NOT a leader. Arroyo is NOT a PG.

Jameer/Diener/Arroyo JJ/GHill/Bogans or Dooling Hedo/Ariza Darko/Bo Dwight/Battie If Jameer is still joking his arse off...Not playing any defense after today's article, then Diener starts the next game. GHill? He should no longer start. I don't know why after one game coming off the bench, he was inserted into the starting lineup. Hes not that good anymore and on top of that, hes playing hurt (what else is new). Start JJ. I mean hes the prototype SG that we need for what we are trying to accomplish. We drafted him for that reason...PLAY THE FREAKING MAN. Hedo played with a lot heart last night so I'm cool with him in the lineup. I actually think him and JJ would compliment each other. Darko should continue to start. BHill just needs to let him shoot some from the field. Hes not Shaq. Hes Darko. Play him like Dirk. Play him like Yao. Sure, he can mix it up with some low post game but lets get his strengths going again.

quote: Originally posted by FanSince1990: quote: Originally posted by Magicman28: I just wanna see guys who want to play now. As soon as Diener got in, it was like the whole morale of the team picked up. Jameer had a good game statistically but he still sucked. He took ill advised shots and played defense that a matador would envy. I just think its time to shake Jameer's attitude up a little. I hate Arroyo's game so I don't care if he ever plays again. Start Diener. Bring Jameer off the bench. If anything it lights a fire under Jameer's arse. It also provides Howard a real shooter. GHill, and I've been saying this for a year now, NEEDS TO RETIRE. I'd start JJ just because he has more of a basketball IQ in his pinky toe then Bogans and Dooling combined. One thing I saw that ticked me off was when Diener and Redick were in and were doing a good job, Hill took Diener out and brought Jameer in during a good run. WHY?! Diener/JJ/Hedo/Darko/Howard, that gives you a shooting lineup that opens things up for Dwight. Gives him options to pass to instead of passing it to Hill who can only shoot from 15 feet out and to Jameer who has to make his shot difficult before he takes it. We need to run some pick and rolls for Darko and let him attempt some outside shots. Howard as well. Hes not shaq and I'm quite frankly tired of watching Shaqdos. I wanna see more versatility from Dwight. Another Magic fan that has converted. Welcome to the tribe =D Can't wait until I go to the mext Magic game, I'm gonna call for the owner's head, forget Brian Hill! Yeah, I'm pretty much there. I saw in today's paper that BHill got into it with a fan lol. He said he'll look into lineup changes. I wanna see if he does and no I'm not talking about starting Bogans. JJ and Diener need PT. I'd start JJ. Watching GHill is painful.

This cracks me up- "Jameer has done enough to prove himself". Yes he has. Laughing and joking during blowouts. Not playing defense. I would stay away from an extension right now. Give him another year.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_magic/2007/03/more_of_magics_.html I bet its Jameer.

quote: Originally posted by emory889:Come to the darkside Magicman. There is plenty of room and we are serving angry bitterness with a side of disappointment for dinner. I'm just about there. I'm gonna go sleep on this and read tomorrows paper and I'm sure I'll read quotes that will put me over there for good. BTW, in case you didn't see it, check this out: http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_magic/2007/03/more_of_magics_.html

quote: Originally posted by Tejiendo: quote: Originally posted by Magicman28: quote: Originally posted by JJZ: quote: Originally posted by Magicman28:Sadly, I feel the same way. Jameer has been aweful. They have no heart. At least play guys who play with heart. Play guys who want to be out there. GHill needs to hang em up. Hes more of a liability then helpful. Enough is enough with this guy. Carlos? I just can't stand to watch him anymore. BHill needs to make adjustments now. Start Diener. Start JJ. Bring Jameer off the bench. Maybe Jameer finds that chip he use to play with. We need to shake things up. No fire. No heart. Nothing. Magicman28, Now you and I are on the same page 100%. I suspected after you watched tonight's game that you'd also want to see different guys get some playing time, because you have good basketball insight. I truly believe the offense only looked good tonite when Diener was in the game. I just wanna see guys who want to play now. As soon as Diener got in, it was like the whole morale of the team picked up. Jameer had a good game statistically but he still sucked. He took ill advised shots and played defense that a matador would envy. I just think its time to shake Jameer's attitude up a little. I hate Arroyo's game so I don't care if he ever plays again. Start Diener. Bring Jameer off the bench. If anything it lights a fire under Jameer's arse. It also provides Howard a real shooter. GHill, and I've been saying this for a year now, NEEDS TO RETIRE. I'd start JJ just because he has more of a basketball IQ in his pinky toe then Bogans and Dooling combined. One thing I saw that ticked me off was when Diener and Redick were in and were doing a good job, Hill took Diener out and brought Jameer in during a good run. WHY?! Diener/JJ/Hedo/Darko/Howard, that gives you a shooting lineup that opens things up for Dwight. Gives him options to pass to instead of passing it to Hill who can only shoot from 15 feet out and to Jameer who has to make his shot difficult before he takes it. We need to run some pick and rolls for Darko and let him attempt some outside shots. Howard as well. Hes not shaq and I'm quite frankly tired of watching Shaqdos. I wanna see more versatility from Dwight. As soon as Diener got in, I though we were giving up, specially going down by 20. Shoot, they already gave up before he got in. Jameer gave up in the 1st quarter. BHill gave up by bringing Diener out and Jameer BACK in. When Diener got in, guys were running pick and rolls harder. Guys seem excited a bit more. I think its because they knew Diener knows how to run an offense and passes. His defense was better then any point guard we threw at them.

quote: Originally posted by JJZ: quote: Originally posted by Magicman28:I just wanna see guys who want to play now. As soon as Diener got in, it was like the whole morale of the team picked up. Jameer had a good game statistically but he still sucked. He took ill advised shots and played defense that a matador would envy. I just think its time to shake Jameer's attitude up a little. I hate Arroyo's game so I don't care if he ever plays again. Start Diener. Bring Jameer off the bench. If anything it lights a fire under Jameer's arse. It also provides Howard a real shooter. GHill, and I've been saying this for a year now, NEEDS TO RETIRE. I'd start JJ just because he has more of a basketball IQ in his pinky toe then Bogans and Dooling combined. One thing I saw that ticked me off was when Diener and Redick were in and were doing a good job, Hill took Diener out and brought Jameer in during a good run. WHY?! Diener/JJ/Hedo/Darko/Howard, that gives you a shooting lineup that opens things up for Dwight. Gives him options to pass to instead of passing it to Hill who can only shoot from 15 feet out and to Jameer who has to make his shot difficult before he takes it. We need to run some pick and rolls for Darko and let him attempt some outside shots. Howard as well. Hes not shaq and I'm quite frankly tired of watching Shaqdos. I wanna see more versatility from Dwight. Amen. I got nothing to add to any of that, it reflects my opinion completely. Now if only we had a coach who could see what you see....... And the thing about taking Diener out when things were starting to improve really upset me too. I commented on it in the game thread at the time. Edit: Hutchence, I'm getting real tired of screaming at my TV. It's so frustrating, it's like the coach is almost trying to lose, and make the team no fun to watch at the same time. At some point I may have to say "life is too short" and stop watching. I'm just about there man. I can't take to much more of BHill. I try to stay positive and I know were young but its not just the team making stupid mistakes. The **** coach is making stupid mistakes.

quote: Originally posted by Hutchence: quote: Originally posted by Magicman28: One thing I saw that ticked me off was when Diener and Redick were in and were doing a good job, Hill took Diener out and brought Jameer in during a good run. WHY?! My husband and I were literally screaming at the television at that point. All we wanted was Diener, JJ, and Ariza to get REAL minutes together. They were doing a better job defensively then anyone the entire night. Why in the hell do you go BACK to Jameer who was letting Felton get anything he wanted? Why do we continue to play Dwight exactly the same way and not let them do anything else but play like Shaq did?

quote: Originally posted by JJZ: quote: Originally posted by Magicman28:Sadly, I feel the same way. Jameer has been aweful. They have no heart. At least play guys who play with heart. Play guys who want to be out there. GHill needs to hang em up. Hes more of a liability then helpful. Enough is enough with this guy. Carlos? I just can't stand to watch him anymore. BHill needs to make adjustments now. Start Diener. Start JJ. Bring Jameer off the bench. Maybe Jameer finds that chip he use to play with. We need to shake things up. No fire. No heart. Nothing. Magicman28, Now you and I are on the same page 100%. I suspected after you watched tonight's game that you'd also want to see different guys get some playing time, because you have good basketball insight. I truly believe the offense only looked good tonite when Diener was in the game. I just wanna see guys who want to play now. As soon as Diener got in, it was like the whole morale of the team picked up. Jameer had a good game statistically but he still sucked. He took ill advised shots and played defense that a matador would envy. I just think its time to shake Jameer's attitude up a little. I hate Arroyo's game so I don't care if he ever plays again. Start Diener. Bring Jameer off the bench. If anything it lights a fire under Jameer's arse. It also provides Howard a real shooter. GHill, and I've been saying this for a year now, NEEDS TO RETIRE. I'd start JJ just because he has more of a basketball IQ in his pinky toe then Bogans and Dooling combined. One thing I saw that ticked me off was when Diener and Redick were in and were doing a good job, Hill took Diener out and brought Jameer in during a good run. WHY?! Diener/JJ/Hedo/Darko/Howard, that gives you a shooting lineup that opens things up for Dwight. Gives him options to pass to instead of passing it to Hill who can only shoot from 15 feet out and to Jameer who has to make his shot difficult before he takes it. We need to run some pick and rolls for Darko and let him attempt some outside shots. Howard as well. Hes not shaq and I'm quite frankly tired of watching Shaqdos. I wanna see more versatility from Dwight.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_magic/2007/03/more_of_magics_.html I bet its Jameer.

quote: Originally posted by O-dub:WDBO has been saying this and I won't disagree. JD, I know you can't believe with this loss. -This team has no pride -The players have quit on Brian Hill -The Magic have a lot to do with the three point shooting -How can this team come out this season great and fall the apart. -Get rotations right. -false helping. -it looks like the Magic straight up quit playing -Pat Garrity is the only one to be the one who hit someone hard -Its ashame to have your 12 or 11 man do that -Carlos has gotten selfish -Travis Diener should start. -You have nothing to lose -The guys in front have nothing to do -Nobody at the two guard is taking control -Grant won't put this team on his back -Tony Battie should come back -Darko is non existent. -Start J.J. Diener, Ariza, Battie, and Dwight. -This team lost 8 straight and we were down by 21 -Concerned with one victory. -I don't still thank this is getting better. -Laughing, laughing, laughing -A humiliating defeat. -Derek Anderson Sub of the game. This is all the things they said and I agree with them. Everything above is true. Sadly, I feel the same way. Jameer has been aweful. They have no heart. At least play guys who play with heart. Play guys who want to be out there. GHill needs to hang em up. Hes more of a liability then helpful. Enough is enough with this guy. Carlos? I just can't stand to watch him anymore. BHill needs to make adjustments now. Start Diener. Start JJ. Bring Jameer off the bench. Maybe Jameer finds that chip he use to play with. We need to shake things up. No fire. No heart. Nothing.

quote: Originally posted by Knappy: quote: Originally posted by ball junkie:Are some of you honestly hoping that the team loses enough games to not make the playoffs so Brian Hill can hopefully be fired? I'm definitely not crazy about the job he's done this year either but for the life of me I can't root for the Magic to lose. I've actually entertained the thought cause I'm sick of losing but when a new day dawns for a new game my heart won't let me do it. I love the Magic more than I do any coach. Especially a coach that won't be here in the future. We actually still have a chance, however slim, to make the post-season. Something we haven't done in awhile. I just don't understand the thinking of some of you as I've seen comments on different threads. Right now I am so disgusted with the owners, the GM and the Coach that I am ok with them getting blown out the rest of the season, but this inept organization will blame the players and make player changes and keep Brian Hill. Then we'll see our former players playing great for a different organization - like Ben Wallace. The Sentinel article today says it all - Brian Hill is coming back next year - Otis is solidly behind him - well Knappy is not coming back - enough is enough - the last 10 years have been atrocious. McGrady walking was a disgrace. Total disregard for fans - we don't know anything - liek the Magic organzation does? Come on - I could have lost McGrady - well I probably wouldn't have lost him - that took real skill to lose him. The Magic Suck right now - we have some good players - too bad they can't play for this coach or this organization - I wish I didn't have any tickets left for games this season. I can make that wish come true. Are they good seats?

Yeah it does drive you crazy. Just a few weeks ago I was right there demanding Hill to be fired. Which is why I'm just trying to focus on this ball club getting to the playoffs. Everyone brings up the definition to insanity, thats exactly why I changed my stance. It was driving me crazy.

quote: Originally posted by JJZ: quote: Originally posted by Magicman28:BTW, if Darko is fed up with starting and finally getting PT, then he doesn't belong here. He has gotten more opportunity then he ever has. Darko is getting more playing time, but he's being forced to play in a way that's not natural for him. I know you agree with me on this to some extent, Magicman28. Now, whenever he's open for a shot more than five feet from the basket, he hesitates, and if he finally takes it he usually misses. You can almost see him thinking: "Is the coach gonna scream at me if I take this shot"? This is a guy who was a dead-eye outside shot a few years ago. So even though he has had more opportunity, I'm not sure he would want to stay here and play for this coach. My guess is BHill told him "Look, I want you to focus on nothing but your low post game. Next year, you'll be more well rounded. Your shot isn't going anywhere." Thats fine and good but I agree, you don't take away a person's strengths. I'm baffled by it as well.

quote: Originally posted by JJZ: quote: Originally posted by emory889:Now lets take a look at our roster. Orlando Magic Jameer Nelson - 3 years Grant Hill - 11 years Hedo Turkoglu - 6 years Darko Milicic - 4 years Dwight Howard - 3 years These numbers are counting this year. You say that these teams aren't comparable but they look very similar to our team. emory889, Don't forget that Battie, with his umpteen years of experience, was the starter for the large majority of this season. That makes your argument even stronger. I've never bought into this "young team" business either. Young core...Ariza is 21 with one year of college experience. Dwight is 21-22 with NO college experience. Jameer, well, he has no excuse imo. Darko, hes 21 in his first full year of playing so hes pretty much a rookie with practice experience.

quote: Originally posted by JJZ: quote: Originally posted by Magicman28:I'm not writing this season off. I've said numerous of times that theres 18 games left. A lot can still happen. I understand. But from my perspective, not calling for change now is equivalent to writing off the season. The handwriting couldn't be on the wall any more clearly that with this coach, we aren't going anywhere. I don't see the need to wait out another 18 games and lose any chance of salvaging the season; it's obvious to me now. I know they won't fire Hill. But as a fan who cares about this season, I have to express my opinion that they should fire him. Right now! I see what your saying. I just know its not gonna happen. I almost wish players would come out and speak on this. We hear from Otis. We hear from management but I wanna hear from GHill, Dwight, Jameer especially, as well as others. I wanna know how they feel about Hill as a coach. I know the media won't do that because local media are pretty much inept to go deep like that. They pretty much work for the Magic and they write what management tells them to write. BTW, thats good indication that I don't let the media "dupe" me.

quote: Originally posted by MagicmaninMiami: quote: You wanna know what I think is sad? Is that you probably would of written a real nice post if you would've left out the insults and let your brain do the writing and not your emotion. I don't know that everything he wrote was an insult. I'm sorry but some of it was just common sense. The word before Brian Hill's name reads coach. Thats what he was hired to do. Not just be a strategist or just call plays. Pat Riley is known to be an outstanding COACH because he finds ways to motivate. Above all else the job entails not being a distraction and eroding confidence in your abilities by sideline antics. I think in the end your argument is based more on emotion. Hope or nonchalance - take your pick but it is certainly not logical to question whether attitudes come from the top. Of course they do. Grown men cannot be forced but thats a strawman. You don't need to force if you know how to motivate and young players can be motivated. One of the definitions of insanity that fits here is "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result". I see that insanity when its always the same roster and substitution habits (varying only when forced by injury). No adjustments but we are going to turn the tide? Playoffs? Who cares? So some other team stinks enough to get us into eight seed (because thats what you have to be looking at) and you feel good for four more games to be shown on national Television that you never belonged and you don't even get a ping pong ball. No thanks. This team was good enough this year (under a good coach) to be in 5 or at least 6th. No, not everything he wrote was. Just calling me "dumb enough". A lot of time I'm playing devils advocate to get people to in fact, think outside the box a little or I try to get positive because things are negative right now. I really don't like Coach Hill. I have admitted that he is not a good motivator and I firmly believe this. However, I do think this team isn't a 50 win ball club but we'll agree to disagree. I see a lot growing up, developing and improving this team has to do. I agree about your definition of insanity which is why I chose to change my stance and I agree my stance is more about hope because I was totally on the "firebrianhill" bandwagon. I figured if I just focus on these 18 games, maybe it would put some positive energy into it and we can turn things around. I know it sounds crazy but I am a FANatic.