Odin

You are also almost completely sucking out hope for teams that are bad. Currently, fans of teams that are bad can at least think to themselves "well this team sucks, but we should be in a position to draft a good player who can help us change our fate". If everyone had the same chances, then there is a good chance an already very good team would get one of the top picks. It is also very possible that this player would not get the playing time needed to fully develop (I think it is good to give a player with a lot of potential a lot of playing time, even on a bad team, rather than leaving him sitting on the bench). I agree that tanking should be discouraged, but, at the same time, fans of all teams need that hope that, even if they are bad now, they have a chance later. What is your solution for getting teams out of team purgatory or team hell then? unlinking them will only stick teams like the magic even further down into the hole.

I am not trying to get where one specific guy is going to fall, though I would say getting a guy that likely falls at a 6 on the scale at worst is very good. Obviously, it is hard to see where exactly guys fall on the scale until they have a couple of years in the league. Even guys like Gordon can be hard to pin down exactly. I could see Gordon as going as high as 8 if everything breaks just right, but he might end up a 6 if things don't. My question was more where does it currently look like the strength of this draft class is? Is there a can't miss player who grades out at an 8 at the very least? Is it more likely that there are a bunch of really good players AKA multi-time allstars, but with no game changer? Or is it one of those drafts where there might be one or two good players and the rest end up just being decent starters at their peak?

You might want to check past drafts- 2003 had 1 in the 10 range, 1 in the 9 range, 2 in the 8 range, and 5 in the 6-7 range and that was one of the best drafts of all time. If the top 8 or so are really as solid as people are saying, this draft probably has 4-5 in the 6-7 range, 1-2 in the 8 range. At least 1-2 of the top 8 picks is likely to be a bit of a bust. Maybe there is a 9, but not every draft has a guy that is MVP quality.

That's the idea I was trying to go for by eliminating Lebron. Unless you see Wade, Bosh, or Melo as generational talents. Around where do these guys fit on the below scale? Do they mostly fall into the 7 range? Any possibly 8-9s? 10- generational talent like Lebron 9- one step down/MVP: Durant and Curry 8- multiple time all star/ all nba- Griffin and Paul George 7- 1-2 time all star/ 1 time all nba 6- borderline all star 5- decent starter 4- Good 6th man 3- bench player 2- scrub 1- D-league

Could this possibly be a 2003 type draft without a Lebron James type talent? Or is that too high an expectation?

I really don't think Holiday is that much better than Payton at this point. He is basically Teague.

Ah! well a-day! what evil looks Had I from old and young! Instead of the cross, the Albatross About my neck was hung. I think Payton's shooting woes will definitely make things harder for him, but it isn't some unforgivable sin, some irreparable flaw. Westbrook, for example, has struggled to shoot 3s at anywhere close to league average his entire career, yet is still a great player (not saying Payton has the potential to be anywhere close to the player Westbrook is). Should we grab a PG in the draft if that is the best player available? Of course. Look at who we have sitting behind Payton in Augustin and Watson. Almost any of the PGs in the draft are likely to be upgrades to that- but no one should be surprised if Payton is still starting at the beginning of next year.

I wouldn't pass on him, I just think the father is already hurting his earning potential.

Man is he delusional. Does he not understand how damaging he might be to his sons' careers?

Not bad on my predictions- about 70% correct, I would say.

You sure? Problem: House is on fire Solution: Set Bob on fire Seems to solve it to me....

Oladipo got it the prior 3 years :( Say what you want about Oladipo, but I think we miss his work ethic.

2.8 per game, 25 total.

He has a weird shot where it looks like it is going in to me almost every time he shoots it, and then it misses. It is like the anti- Shawn Marion shot- looks good but is somehow not effective.

Wow, getting messy.

I think it all comes down to how aggressive he is. Aggressive Payton is a good to great starter. Not aggressive Payton is a bad bench player.

Lol, It doesn't look like he is the power agent he once was.

How is Monk as a secondary ball handler?

Hey, I am enjoying the triple double as much as everyone else, but Payton has done this before. I definitely think he is an improved player, and at least gives us some lee-way to pick the best possible player in the draft, even if they aren't a PG, but he isn't the second coming of Magic Johnson or anything like that. Fun fact: according to Basketball-reference, his offensive rating for this game was 156 and defensive rating was 94.

Almost every team has been bad at some point. Almost every team has been a top 5 worst team at some point as well. I really think you overrate these "corrosive" effects. To get the best players, unfortunately you have to be bad. To win, you have to have the best players. The only other ways you can get the best players is either through a trade or through free agency- and if you want them to stay, you generally need, again, other good players. Generally, teams are not willing to trade away their stars, and, generally, stars are not willing to go to mediocre teams unless the mediocre team has a star, which leaves the draft.

I think we should be taking best possible player available no matter what. Whoever we peg to develop into the best player at the end of the day is who we should go for. If that ends up being a PG, even if they don't replace Payton right away.

So I was just looking back at the past drafts and for as many good PGs are in the league right now, Payton might be the best PG drafted since Lillard, who was drafted 5 years ago. (You could argue Schroder here, but Payton and Schroder are in the same general range). The league really needs this group of PGs that are coming in this draft to get a new influx of young talent at the position. Almost all of the good to great PGs in the league are currently in their prime. Only Kyrie Irving is under 25 of that group. Edit: Can probably throw Russel into that Payton/ Schroder group too.

I'm fine with it. Keep the Augustin Green tank rolling!

On a game to game basis, Watson is better than Augustin, in my opinion. Augustin is just the PG version of Green.

I am pretty sure they are tanking in order to give up the least number of assets possible.