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It really does happen a lot. A lot of people thought Klay Thompson was a reach where he was drafted; he was a low-ceiling guy who wasn't supposed to be able to keep up defensively and would just be a spot-up shooter. Eric Bledsoe was a 2-guard with not enough handles to play PG and not a good enough passer. Paul George couldn't get his own shots. Kawhi Leonard was too unskilled to play SF. Draymond Green was, hilariously, not considered even a good defender, on top of being too small to play PF. Khris Middleton was too slow. C.J. McCollum was too small to play SG. Rudy Gobert was too skinny and didn't play hard enough. Gary Harris wasn't a good enough ball handler and was too small. Rodney Hood was too skinny to play SF and not quick enough to play SG. Myles Turner ran funny. Devin Booker didn't have a good enough 1st step to get his own shot, and he wasn't 'long' enough. Malcolm Brogdon was slow, couldn't jump. Just how good the late gems in the draft are varies, but there always are some. And often as not there are a couple potential stars there.

We need to figure out how much of vucevic's defensive issues are Payton related (maybe it had no impact but we need to find out). We need to figure out Fournier's true offensive impact. Can his offense be replicated collectively by the other wings or does he really have a tangible impact? We need to see additional growth of Gordon on the offensive end. We need to see Isaac actually play.

I'm not sure why we're having the tanking discussion this year. Is anyone really sitting here saying we HAVE to get Ayton? Couldn't we just see what growth we can get from this roster without artificially handicapping it and draft wherever we end up drafting? I'd rather win and have a better idea of what Gordon is, what vucevic looks like in a post Payton world, how Mario can fit in a full roster, etc. Then we just draft whoever is at our slot.

Life. Life's been bothering me and this organization isn't helping.

i'm pretty confident vuc is not a difference maker when it comes to winning. and fornier is good, but to me he is more of a slashing 3 point specialist than someone to build a team around.

I was simply using the example of another player that couldn't get a late 1st rounder, I have no like or dislike for Avery Bradley. I do think you value EP quite a bit more than most people do, including general managers. If he is so good why weren't teams standing in line to make great trade offers for him?

After seeing what Lou Williams got I'm much more optimistic.

Eye am won who appreciates correct word usage

Youngs most valuable (arguably) asset to a team is his passing. True he warps the floor with his 3 point ability which opens up all sorts of lanes but it's his ability to use that space that's so impressive. His handle is tight he has the ball on a string. Bigger more athletic defenders? Ask number 1 point of attack defender Jevon Carter... Players with his 3 point accuracy and trigger have to he respected on D because of this, paired with his elite ball handling skills and hesitation moves, he's able to get into the driving lanes to finish or dish to open men. I can't see him not succeeding.

Sure, we can think that now. But people say that every year, to an extent. This past year was a crazy deep draft for star potential, everyone saying that you could get a potential star in the top 8 or 9. Who's the best rookie of this class so far? Donovan Mitchell, pick #13, who no one thought would be this good. 2009 was the year of Blake Griffin and then no one. Except Steph turned out to be Steph. No one saw that coming. 2010 was the John Wall Sweepstakes year. Except PG was picked 10th. 2012 was AD and no other stars, remember? except Beal and Drummond are great. There weren't supposed to be any stars in 2013. Oladipo, McCollum, and Giannis came out of nowhere.

I think if we get the #1 pick we will get it right...damn I hope that happens

Not in this draft. This is the draft where top 5, top 3 if you can, is important imo.

Sure but this organization has already possibly screwed that up by not picking up Mario's option. Top 3? Ok but I'm concerned about falling out of the top 6. I do not want be talking about the possibilities of Bridges or Knox.

That would be great to drop to 3 and 17 if we won but we would likely trade 17 for 2 protected second rounders in 2040 or use trade it for cash considerations. Lets remember what we inexplicably did with this years draft. Without question we are the worst team in the league the last 10 years at valuing our assets.

The fact that it clearly impeded his shooting and he chose never to do anything about it is reason enough to be happy he's gone. Is his hair more important to him than his basketball and his team?

Jackson is 6'11 with a 7'4 reach and is a fantastic rim protector and interior defender. Center. Bagley is 6'11 whose best qualities are his interior finishing and great rebounding. He should thrive as a rim runner. You want to give him room to work on the interior. That's a center

Facts and numbers are scary.

Payton got lit up by every starting PG in the league lol. That's why he's gone.

Please explain why. Did we really need another second round pick? I really don't get the point. Let him play and if he gets an offer we don't want to match, let him go. I can live without another second round pick that we probably don't use and kick it down to 2030.

The Skiles thing scarred Payton. Payton sucks because of Skiles. Payton is a Millennial snowflake. Millennials require tender love and affection, and Skiles gave none of it. In fact, the reason we suck so much is because of what Skiles did to the team. He sucked the life out of this team. In truth, we can blame Skiles for Nick Anderson missing those free throws against Houston in 1995. Nick was living under Skiles’ shadow and the pressure was too much.

EP's hair would be fabulous for a musician! We actually strive to catch shots of musicians with their hair in the air. It doesn't affect their performance at all and it makes for awesome photos :D

Even without Vuc we will be pretty well set at the 4/5. If we happen to get a PG that plays great D (Sexton?) we would be capable of putting 5 good defenders on the floor at the same time when need be. One thing I hope we stop doing is bringing in players trying to compensate for other players' deficiencies, ie Payton & Vuc. Our center needs to protect the paint and if Vuc can't/won't do it we shouldn't play him except at garbage time and our PG should either play tight D or outscore his opponent substantially (Young). It's been exciting seeing actual defense in the paint!

I understand the whole you should take the BPA thing but with Vuc and Biyombo at $34M and nobody wanting to trade for either plus Birch looking good, do you still take a center if he's the BPA or if there isn't a ton of difference do you take 2nd BPA at a position that you don't have so much money tied up in?

From 2011 to 2014 seasons, we were tied for the worst record in the league for those three seasons. Please explain to me how we didn’t “suck terribly”? You tankers got exactly what you wanted, and it led us to this point.